Mad Men series finale (spoilers)

[FlowerChild]

Wow. I've got to say:

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That totally sent chills down my spine and resulted in a real "AAAAAAHHH!!!!" moment seeing that after all these years :)

I'm notoriously hard to please when it comes to series finales, but that one is right up there with The Sopranos on my short list of all time greats.

[Taleric]

I have been too distant from the states to catch every episode of all the TV series in the last few years but am still amazed with the quality and ingenuity of the writers. (Puts most movies to shame)

You know a piece of entertainment is gold if it wows FC :)

I think I will have to spend part of my retirement marathon watching all the goodness I missed lol.

[FlowerChild]

Well, I don't know if I'd recommend the entire series. I enjoyed it quite a bit as I'm fascinated by stuff like the impact of advertising on people, and the constant non-stop barrage of cons and scams that we've accepted being part of our day to day lives, but I doubt it would be everyone's bag.

But I do heartily endorse the ending of the series :)

Endings are a really big deal for me. So many otherwise excellent shows and movies blow it on the ending, like the thing I recently mentioned about the Daredevil series. Dexter is another would that will likely live in infamy as being absolutely terrible, although that show was in a pretty steady downhill slide for everything past the first season.

So yeah, I just have a particular thing for well executed and fulfilling feeling endings. In this case, they took what was rapidly feeling like a cheesy redemption story and turned it on its ear with the main character embracing his nature and building the Death Star in the end :)

I haven't seen that commercial in many many many years, but man, did it ever come flooding back the instant they put it on screen, and while it didn't occur to me back then, looking back on it now, it's probably one of the most exploitive, manipulative and just downright evil ads ever made.

"Buy our sugar-bomb that we've hired all these token ethnicities to hold up while they stand in formation singing and it will bring about world peace!"

Oh...the lolz, and even more lol inducing is that it's supposed to have been one of the most successful marketing campaigns of all time, so people obviously bought the con en masse, hook line and sinker :)

[Sarudak]

I've never understood how these kinds of ads can be effective. Why would anyone choose to by coke because some kinds were singing on a hilltop? What does that have to do with soda? I don't understand how ads can be effective unless they provide some kind of meaningful information relative to the product that people were unaware of previously.

[FlowerChild]

I've never understood how these kinds of ads can be effective. Why would anyone choose to by coke because some kinds were singing on a hilltop? What does that have to do with soda? I don't understand how ads can be effective unless they provide some kind of meaningful information relative to the product that people were unaware of previously.

Well, I honestly don't think that those kinds of ads (at least at that totally over the top level) would be effective today, or even tolerated, as they'd come across as a blatant con.

In one of my exceedingly rare optimistic statements: I do think that people are much less naive about this kind of thing than they were back then due to decades of additional exposure to this kind of bombardment. Keep in mind that the period covered in that show is basically during the birth of modern advertising, which is one of the things that makes it so interesting. On the downside, I think it also means that people are far less trusting in general, and of course the con game that is advertising has become far more sophisticated.

Also keep in mind that it was a generational thing: that was released coming out of the 60's, in the early 70's, where the whole peace and love thing was an idea that still had some traction ;)

[Wafflewaffle]

Ads are amost always either brand establishing or reaffirmitive. Establishing ads are run for new products or brands and/or for ventures into new markets. These are ads that explain to you why such product exist or how they work and its pretty much what you are refering to. If you think you never purchased something new becouse of one of this marketing campaings you are lying to yourself (not you especifically Sarudak).

Reaffirming adds are much more brand focused then product focused and they serve to maintain a sort of legitimacy of said brand over its targeted audience. These try their best to be THE Coke Cola becouse there are other cola bevereges in their markets. Coke Cola here in Brazil doesnt dominate becouse their product is the best, it does it cuz no one gives legitimacy over other kinds of cola brands. Those are second tier cuz their are not Coka Cola. If this establishment is done well enough it floods over anything with their brand on ( kinda like a seal of approval ). And becouse these ads are brand focused it doesnt need to be about anything at all, as soon as it calls your attention and shows you the brand at the end of it.

I find marketing design fascinating. But to be honest i never knew Mad men was about that. Kinda peaked my interest.

[Sarudak]

Hmm.. Interesting. I think it's hard for me to be able to imagine a world without the level of skepticism and cynicism common today. Given the age that I am I've only really known one world by experience. The iterations of the world before I know of but it's clearly different from having had experience. When you talked about how people are less trusting today my mind immediately related it to the many anti-science rooted movements of today. Maybe I would have fit in better in a world full of more positivity when nuclear power was going to make energy too cheap to meter and our flying cars and moon colonies were just around the turn of the next decade. Then again I've more recently come around to the opinion that we do have a good chance of wiping ourselves out with technology in the not too distant future so maybe not.

Ads are amost always either brand establishing or reaffirmitive. Establishing ads are run for new products or brands and/or for ventures into new markets. These are ads that explain to you why such product exist or how they work and its pretty much what you are refering to. If you think you never purchased something new becouse of one of this marketing campaings you are lying to yourself (not you especifically Sarudak).

I never said I don't buy things because of ads. I was specifically talking about the brand style ads. Ads that inform me of a product I was unaware of or try to convince me of the usefulness of said product can and have influenced my purchasing decisions. Brand ads not so much.

[FlowerChild]

Maybe I would have fit in better in a world full of more positivity when nuclear power was going to make energy too cheap to meter

And was perfectly safe as long as you knew a few simple procedures!

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I never said I don't buy things because of ads. I was specifically talking about the brand style ads. Ads that inform me of a product I was unaware of or try to convince me of the usefulness of said product can and have influenced my purchasing decisions. Brand ads not so much.

Ads that don't tell me anything useful do influence my purchase decisions: they piss me off and motivate me to not buy the product advertised ;)

I do acknowledge they likely work in general though. I'm just particularly aggravated by people trying to blatantly manipulate me.

[Sarudak]

And was perfectly safe as long as you knew a few simple procedures!

It seems crazy to me that people ever believed that duck and cover was a meaningful response to a nuclear blast. Although I guess it's probably like the crazy antics you have to do to take an airplane in america today. A big symbol to tell the people the government is doing something which really has very little to do with protecting against the ostensible threat.

Ads that don't tell me anything useful do influence my purchase decisions: they piss me off and motivate me to not buy the product advertised ;)

I do acknowledge they likely work in general though. I'm just particularly aggravated by people trying to blatantly manipulate me.

Hm... I think that might be a generational thing too. Growing up constantly bombarded by advertisement everywhere I just don't have the time or energy to get upset by people trying to manipulate me because it's happening everywhere all the time. I just tune it out and move on. Actually the more subtle versions piss me off because then I have to try and parse if the information is valid or manipulative and it waste's my time and mental energy.

[FlowerChild]

Hm... I think that might be a generational thing too. Growing up constantly bombarded by advertisement everywhere I just don't have the time or energy to get upset by people trying to manipulate me because it's happening everywhere all the time. I just tune it out and move on. Actually the more subtle versions piss me off because then I have to try and parse if the information is valid or manipulative and it waste's my time and mental energy.

I'm not sure if it's a generational thing, as it isn't common to people my age (maybe slightly more common...but not common). I find there's also a thing that tends to happens with age where people want to feel safe, and one of the easiest ways to do that is to just buy into what you're being told as doubting it takes far too much energy and causes a lot of stress. I think it's just particular to my character and having a distinct dislike of being manipulated. In many ways, my mindset is very much that of an aging punk, and I don't think there are too many of us left :)

Like I can't really watch any modern politicians (regardless of affiliation) or corporate representatives speak without wanting to pull an Elvis on the TV. IMO society has become so habituated to constantly being lied to from all directions that it's basically become expected, and that both saddens and infuriates me. I think today lying is not so much considered offensive in itself, as much as being stupid enough to be caught at it is. Heck, I've even noticed it in my modding through stuff like how I don't think people get pissed at me because I don't value their ideas. Instead, I think they get pissed because I don't pull the "we value your input" corporate-style lie that they've become habituated to being told.

I've always had a healthy respect for truth, believing it's a fundamental component of making any kind of progress, and that's probably the thing that's changed with time that bothers me the most.

[FlowerChild]

Actually, here, because the above inspired me to listen to it yet again, and because it's remained one of my favorite songs for a long time now, here's a little thematic listening to go along with my aging punk mentality ;)

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Lyrics included in the above vid in case you haven't developed your punk music ear to the point of being able to make them out for yourself :)

I have extremely eclectic musical tastes, but have always loved punk for the often intelligent and downright hysterical lyrical content.

Like going even more old school, something like this still cracks me up laughing every time I hear it:

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Lyrics in the video description for that one.

[E.B. Farnham]

Actually, here, because the above inspired me to listen to it yet again, and because it's remained one of my favorite songs for a long time now, here's a little thematic listening to go along with my aging punk mentality ;)

Shab Shabba Shabba Do Wah.


I honestly have no idea how people put up with TV ads these days. The only ads I've had the misfortune to hear in years are while I've been in friends. They're so jarring yet those friends seem so oblivious to it. Plus they're Irish T.V. ads which are mild by the standards of your American ads.

[FlowerChild]

Shab Shabba Shabba Do Wah.

Lol! I never heard that version before :)

Here's the original for people that might not get the gag immediately if they aren't familiar with it:

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Jello is just a straight up funny guy, and obviously very intelligent. Like some of the stuff he was part of when he teamed up with Ministry under the name of "Lard" was hysterical:

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Glad this is the off-topic forum, as I'd have a hard time explaining how we got from Mad Men to there ;)

[E.B. Farnham]

Lol! I never heard that version before :)

Hah yeah it's one of favourites. I love the build up. I got my first DK album as a nasty tape recording of Fresh Fruit a long time ago. The Kennedys are a bit of an aquired taste but once you've aquired it you'll wonder why anyone makes songs over 3 mins long at all ;)

I've never heard of this Lard you speak of. I'll have to give it some listening.

[FlowerChild]

Hah yeah it's one of favourites. I love the build up. I got my first DK album as a nasty tape recording of Fresh Fruit a long time ago. The Kennedys are a bit of an aquired taste but once you've aquired it you'll wonder why anyone makes songs over 3 mins long at all ;)

I suspect because most people don't sing/play like they're constantly on speed :)

I think my first exposure to them was hearing "Too Drunk To Fuck" at a party (I think that's the closest they've ever come to a "love song" ;) ), thinking it was hysterical, and then having to find more. They're not something I listen to constantly, but I rarely have playlists that don't have one or two of their songs in them.

[DaveYanakov]

Well, I honestly don't think that those kinds of ads (at least at that totally over the top level) would be effective today, or even tolerated, as they'd come across as a blatant con.

In one of my exceedingly rare optimistic statements: I do think that people are much less naive about this kind of thing than they were back then due to decades of additional exposure to this kind of bombardment. Keep in mind that the period covered in that show is basically during the birth of modern advertising, which is one of the things that makes it so interesting. On the downside, I think it also means that people are far less trusting in general, and of course the con game that is advertising has become far more sophisticated.

I'm unfortunately going to have to counter with the ad campaign that has been driving a massive increase in cola sales. The one where buying every token minority a coke creates spontaneous street parties that everyone is invited to.

[FlowerChild]

I'm unfortunately going to have to counter with the ad campaign that has been driving a massive increase in cola sales. The one where buying every token minority a coke creates spontaneous street parties that everyone is invited to.

...and causes awkward kids to find teenage romance. Wish they would have extended the timeline on that commercial to the kid injecting insulin a few years down the line :P

I would still argue I don't find it as slimy as the 70's one, as it at least isn't saying buying their product will bring about world peace, but yeah, point taken. They're still rolling death stars off the assembly line, and the people of Alderaan are still loving it :)

[Sarudak]

It's funny to me that they're trying to pass coke off as this personal product with the whole "it's got your name on it" thing when it's really one of the most generic impersonal products in the world.

[DaveYanakov]

The only thing that surprises me is that they don't have vending machines with label printers for custom names on the street already.

Seeing these commercials again makes me think of Syrup by Max Barry. It's a worthwhile read if you can find a copy. The movie sacrificed a lot of the punch to broaden the market appeal but it covers many of the bases.

[FlowerChild]

The only thing that surprises me is that they don't have vending machines with label printers for custom names on the street already

Might be a branding thing. I know I'd happily punch my name in as "Diabetes" and proudly walk around with it that way :)

[DaveYanakov]

I have a pretty good printer and some shrinkwrap that I could probably use to counterfeit that...