Hardcore Sinkholes... again

[FlowerChild]

So, I'm once again considering axing Hardcore Skinkholes. I think I asked this once before back in the day, but anyone opposed?

With the price of death being so high now, the occasional truly random death that occurs due to it just doesn't seem right IMO. I had one last night where I had just stepped out of a hidey hole I had come and gone from several times, and walking over a small patch of sand dumped me into a bedrock level ravine.

Should I have tested that ground? I dunno, I guess... maybe? In theory yes, but in practice, I know it's just not going to happen. The occurrences are too rare to justify the hassle, even if the penalty is so severe. Sure, I could potentially expand Hardcore Poking to make it easier to test larger areas, but cases like the above, would anyone really do so all the time anyways? I sincerely doubt it.

IMO, when the feature works right, and gives you an unexpected dump into a small cave without outright killing you, it's awesome. When you're suddenly mid-air hurtling down into the abyss out of nowhere... not so much.

[Gunnerman21]

I am for keeping the sinkholes around, they are the only fatal thing about deserts besides lack of fertile ground. But I don't use poking because I like to keep the sticks rather than leave them for paths. So when I do fall down or have a near miss, it's still my fault because I could have poked.

[FlowerChild]

they are the only fatal thing about deserts besides lack of fertile ground.

That I agree with, and in some ways, that's why they're there in the first place. The thing is, I can always come up with another downside for the biome, and in fact have had one in mind for awhile now.

So, if it's a bad feature, that's not really a reason to keep it around.

Lack of trees are an existing downside too btw. Middle of the desert isn't survivable early game.

But I don't use poking because I like to keep the sticks rather than leave them for paths. So when I do fall down or have a near miss, it's still my fault because I could have poked.

In wide open desert, yes, I agree. You can also just entirely avoid most deserts. On a small patch of sand / gravel just randomly out in the world? Not so much. That's what got me last night, and I don't think that's something I can balance in a way where I can reasonably expect people to prepare for something like that.

Don't forget: this can be a single exposed block in pretty much any biome. It's rare, but when it happens, I have a hard time considering that fair, and unlike something like spawning in a jungle biome in a jungle biome, it can happen after investing several hours into a spawn.

[dawnraider]

It's a really great concept, and I love the idea, but I agree that it doesn't really work out. It's such a rare occurrence that there's very little reinforcement to poke the ground. It never really feels like a danger besides a side thought of "wouldn't it suck if that happened?" I really think it would be better if there was a more tangible danger to deserts, and one that could be directly dealt with, that was common enough to reinforce the danger, and it sounds like you have an idea for that.

[Norton]

My most successful recent early-game was on a corner of a desert in an abandoned village. After wandering around extensively, there are a half-dozen holes that collapsed behind me, but I've never been sucked down (and use logs to fill the holes). At this point sinkholes have been a convenient way to find near-surface caves, rather than a threat. Noticed I have a habit of walking the line between blocks in deserts, though don't know whether that really improves the odds.

This may just be me, but spiders seem to be more common in deserts (flat terrain plus no vegetation spawns packs better?). Between spiders, clear sight-lines, not losing animals by proximity, and easy clay drying, I've found myself seeking out desert edges for early-game camps.

[FlowerChild]

Lots of good food for thought here guys. Thanks for bouncing it back and forth with me.

This may just be me, but spiders seem to be more common in deserts (flat terrain plus no vegetation spawns packs better?).

I hadn't thought of it, but that would make some sense: without trees breaking up the terrain, it would provide more 2x2 areas, which they require to spawn.

[the_fodder]

I personally like them, except when I fall to 3rd strata. I would think you could limit the random deaths by restricting them to only happen in larger areas of sand along with the adjustment to HC poke you mentioned.

[Gilberreke]

The only time I've cheated in recent years is due to a sinkhole. There was this one patch of maybe 3 blocks of sand, I accidentally walked across it and it plummeted me down to 3rd strata (ravine on top of ravine). The resulting death made me ragequit as this patch of sand was right outside of my base and I was carrying a bunch of really important stuff (thinking I was safe, since I was within my walls). I think I lost a vessel or something like that.

So I cheated and teleported back to spawn, as well as spawning in whatever really important item it was I lost. It just didn't feel fair and it made me not want to play that world anymore. I think the issue is that the blocks drop immediately, so there's no way to react. It feels like the old Mojang drop creepers. Sure, you should never walk underneath a ledge, but then suddenly you're death without warning.

That said, the 3rd strata sinkholes are the only time I ever complain about sinkholes, I do enjoy them at other times. I even had one death where a sinkhole dropped me into a spawner, and I didn't rage, I just accepted that one.

[dawnraider]

I think the whole thing comes down to the fact that it's a great feature until it kills you. And it possibly killing you is pretty much impossible to remove without changing the feature, as well as caves generation, pretty fundamentally.