Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

A place to talk to other users about the mod.
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FlowerChild
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Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by FlowerChild »

Another week, another round of feature development!

As always, rules for this thread:

-DO NOT post suggestions.
-DO NOT critique unreleased features. Wait until you've had a chance to try them before passing judgement.

With that out of the way, let's open with an in-game screenshot:
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That's my chicken. I'm going to hug him, and pet him, and call him George.

Why am I posting a picture of a chicken (besides loving him)? Well, it's because I feel BTW has reached a critical turning point in its development. I'm currently holed up in a little cave with myself and that chicken as the last survivors of the gradual apocalypse that has occurred around my spawn point, waiting out the night to try and get him back to my base, with spiders hissing outside and wolves howling in the distance. I am genuinely nervous about trying to get him home safe in the morning as my food supplies are running low, and he's one of my last hopes for long-term survival in this region.

You see, I've been putting off starting my new world for awhile now. I've started many temporary ones to playtest the early game, but there was always a major change on the horizon that made me hesitant to start *the* world that would become my new primary.

That changed a few days ago. I finally felt that BTW had reached the point where I could start a new world and stick with it. Ever since, I've been playing the shit out of the mod, and loving every minute of it. I've made a few tweaks to the code here and there to get the gameplay experience right where I want it, and still have a couple of lingering items I want to take care of before next release, but oddly, I've begun to cross off more items from my todo list as unnecessary than adding to it. More and more, it's beginning to feel like the additional plans I had in the works just aren't needed anymore, and that the game is standing on its own merits. It's just plain fun as is.

Some specific observations that I've made over my few days of play-testing here (keep in mind that I am playing a slightly different version from what you are, that's also slightly more challenging):

-The thrill of finally reaching diamonds is fucking awesome. In fact, the whole bottom layer of strata portion of the tech progression where you're hunting in caves that you can't effectively modify is the shiznit. There's a real sense of claustrophobia that occurs, and you actually wind up having to *think* while trying to do things like navigate lava pools and worm your way through caves to get from one to the other. I was shooting for precisely that, but I was very pleasantly surprised by how well it works out in practice. There's a real building sense of dread as you work your way downwards.

-My own mod is killing me. I probably died 5+ times over the past few days, which is totally unheard of for me. I usually go weeks in game without dying, and when it did happen, it was usually just a stupid mistake like momentarily letting go of shift while navigating a dirt scaffold or something. Each time I've died over the past few days on the other hand, it was always because I felt like I fucked up as a player, it was my own damn fault, and I learned something from it. I'm extremely happy with that.

-The overall sense of desperation is just about where I want it. There's a sense of being stranded in an alien world and really having to fight for your own survival. What I find really neat about that, is it is *not* realistic, but the emotions involved feel about right. Again, very happy about that.

-I *really* want to play BTW right now. I've got a stack of games on Steam that are either going unplayed, or which I'm rapidly getting bored of in favor of playing BTW. This is rather unheard of for me. Over the course of my career, generally after a year or two of working on a project, I was so sick of it that I never wanted to play it again. Not so here, and that's a definite first for me.

Anyways, this is a big moment for me overall. It's beginning to feel like BTW can stand on its own two feet as a game, and if my crossing stuff off of my checklist as unnecessary is any indication, it feels like I can now begin the process of pushing it out of the nest and letting go to move on to bigger and better things.

Overall, I think I'm really happy I took the extra few months to finalize BTW like this, and finally decided to tackle the overall "game" rather than restrict myself to the mod specific functionality like I was doing in the past. I've admittedly been beating myself up a lot over not having started up RTH by now, but I've mentioned before that BTW is probably the thing I am most proud of creating over the course of my life, and I think that's doubly true right now. I am beginning to believe more and more that it was time well spent.

My apologies for all the tooting of my own horn in this dev diary. It's really coming from a place of genuine satisfaction over what I've done here rather than a desire to self-promote. I'm just a very happy camper right now :)

<dances>
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Detritus
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by Detritus »

Good on you man. I know I'm certainly enjoying the latest update, as difficult as I'm finding it to get a foothold.

<dances in harmony>
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer.
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Sarudak
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by Sarudak »

I think a little horn tooting is appropriate. Better than wolves is a masterpiece of epic proportions and has provided me probably the most enjoyment out of any computer game I have played in my life. It seems like this diary ended with the feeling that you're not actually working on anything in particular. So does that mean it's done? Time for RTH?!?!?
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FlowerChild
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by FlowerChild »

Detritus wrote:Good on you man. I know I'm certainly enjoying the latest update, as difficult as I'm finding it to get a foothold.
Oh yeah man...if the game's creator is dying on a regular basis, you know it's tough :)

The important part to me is that it feels like its fair, and that you aren't being randomly and arbitrarily killed. To me, that's a crucial aspect in players fearing death, as if things are too arbitrary, it tends to result in a "whatever...it's going to happen regardless" sensation.

It's also important to me that unlike Rogue-likes, you still feel compelled to continue playing your world, knowing that your progress is still out there waiting to be rediscovered.

And yeah, that's exactly the way it's feeling to me right now, which makes me <happy dance> :)
Sarudak wrote:I think a little horn tooting is appropriate. Better than wolves is a masterpiece of epic proportions and has provided me probably the most enjoyment out of any computer game I have played in my life.
Oh wow dude. Thanks for that. As you know, I really respect your opinion on design, so the above means an awful lot to me :)
Sarudak wrote:It seems like this diary ended with the feeling that you're not actually working on anything in particular. So does that mean it's done? Time for RTH?!?!?
Not quite yet. This is the finalizing of the early game. Next comes HC Villagers. After that, the "end game" of BTW. THEN I'm done :)

I suspect I will leave major bug-fixing (like the platform thing...any bugs left open in the bug report section right now are fairly major jobs) for after that, and potentially for when I'm already working on RTH. My goal right now is to get to "feature complete" status, and have the overall balance of the mod finalized. Once I hit that stage, then the design portion of my brain can move onto other things, and I can just fix bugs here and there with the programming portion :)
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FlowerChild
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by FlowerChild »

Oh yeah, and the stratification convertor + options screen thing. I'll likely do that next after finalizing the early game, as I want people to be able to convert their old worlds for strata as soon as possible.
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FlowerChild
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by FlowerChild »

Oh...and the port to 1.5.2 and the ModLoader replacement code. Ok, fuck...I still have a ways to go...

Still, it's a big step forward for the mod! :)
Mason11987
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by Mason11987 »

Well honestly I think we need to bring out a whole damn orchestra of horns to toot. You've created something awesome here, which has led to countless hours of enjoyment for me.
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FlowerChild
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by FlowerChild »

Mason11987 wrote:Well honestly I think we need to bring out a whole damn orchestra of horns to toot. You've created something awesome here, which has led to countless hours of enjoyment for me.
Thanks man! Wait until the next release before tooting though. I think these last tweaks I'm making really push it over the edge to exactly where I want it and give it a nice final coat of paint :)

As always, the devil is in the details. Nothing radical this time, just a nice layer of polish.
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by DukeCunning »

Detritus wrote:Good on you man.
FlowerChild,

I think your mod is the best.

On a separate note: I always appreciated the fact that you shared your thoughts with us.

Or is it that I like hearing your thoughts because I agree with your way of thinking?

Who knows. I just like reading what you have to say. Maybe it is because I used to be a programmer.
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EpicAaron
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by EpicAaron »

I love how, without the recent hardcore changes, that chicken probably would have just been killed on the spot without much thought about its effect on the future food supply. As people have said, thanks for the great mod and I hope the future is succesful!
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Mikko_blu
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by Mikko_blu »

It's important that you enjoy what you are working on, and i was starting to get worried for a period of time that you were not. I'm happy to be wrong about that.

I was wondering why you weren't online as much lately. I see now why that is :)
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FlowerChild
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by FlowerChild »

Mikko_blu wrote:It's important that you enjoy what you are working on, and i was starting to get worried for a period of time that you were not. I'm happy to be wrong about that.

I was wondering why you weren't online as much lately. I see now why that is :)
Well, that and you may have noticed that I've been pumping out a pretty crazy amount of content the past little while man :)

I just go through phases like everyone else. Sometimes I'm more talkative than others. Sometimes I'm more focused on what I'm doing. Sometimes I just have nothing of significance to say. You really don't need to worry about me not enjoying what I'm doing, as it really is my primary focus and passion in life to make games in one way or another.

Right now, I just need to keep moving forward towards getting away from MC and onto RTH, as vanilla development has become such a cluster fuck that I don't think I can be happy working in this manner indefinitely. I'm also pretty sick of the MC community and all the bullshit that comes along with it. Other than that, and given I am most certainly moving forward, it's all good :)
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Vexalor
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by Vexalor »

I'm really happy to hear that you're enjoying your mod as much as, if not more than, most of your community. As Mikko said, that's something that's really important, and it's something that's commonly missed by many MC mod authors and game designers these days. I know I've personally been pouring a lot of time into the mod as of late and it just keeps getting better and better.

I think it really adds to the whole experience knowing that the maker of any great game is having tons of fun with it at the same as I am. So, again, thanks for all the work you put into these releases and all the time you give your community at the same time.
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Tsugumi Henduluin
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by Tsugumi Henduluin »

Like I said over twitter and in my post a couple of days ago, BtW in its current form is downright fantastic. I agree with pretty much every point you put in your opening post: Exploring caves is now a nervewrecking challenge early game and not a lolstorm of free goodies, trying to even survive early game is one hell of a satisfying thing to pull off and the overall difficulty makes it so that you *will* get punished, hard, for any and all slip-ups, but in a good and fair way, like you said.

Basically, BtW has become what I had originally hoped Minecraft would be. Your single mod has achieved what nearly a hundred other ones haven't been able to for me: make MC truly fun again. Like you, I pushed aside other games I was playing, simply because I can't stop trying to progress a little further in my BtW world. I'd say you more than deserve to pat yourself on the back with what you have achieved and I can't wait to see what you have in store for us in the future.
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FlowerChild
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by FlowerChild »

Sorry man, I didn't realize the person I was talking to on twitter already had an account here. I wound up wondering why you didn't, as you seemed to really "get" what I was doing :)

Anyways, very glad you're having so much fun with it, and thanks for the kind words!
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Sage
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by Sage »

You and a chick alone in a cave? Way to go, Mr. Flower ;) /obvious joke

Anyway, I'm really impressed by your words, because I had similar experience in BTW too. I finally started to die in MC, something that was impossible in vMC. And it was always my fault, and I could blame only my stupidity. Reading that after years of development you still enjoy your own mod, and it pushes you to make an entire similar game, it's the splendid confirmation of the incredible level of quality that your mod offers. It's interesting to note how not only other mod authors get bored of their own ideas in the end, but also the main developers of the vanilla game end up playing mostly custom maps, as you can "finish" a vanilla save in a few hours.

I don't feeling confident to open a beer in your honor at 9 A.M., but pretend I am :)
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Tsugumi Henduluin
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by Tsugumi Henduluin »

FlowerChild wrote:Sorry man, I didn't realize the person I was talking to on twitter already had an account here. I wound up wondering why you didn't, as you seemed to really "get" what I was doing :)
Yeah, no worries. I'm a Grand Master Lurker, so it's not surprising my name didn't ring any bells. Not that it matters one way or another anyway, as long as I can play the mod :p

And indeed, nice to hear that you yourself are also enjoying your work. I imagine that this is a nice change of pace from what I understand is a very stressful environment to work in professionally.game
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by someonetobe »

I'm glad you're enjoying your stockholm syndrome as much as the rest of us.

Oh, how I love my vile prison.
I seek fond moments, not fond memories.
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by IzBatt »

The experience of early game BTW has become so legendary. I keep coming back to it. I don't feel I even need AAA titles anymore because of how much fun and different every play experience with BTW has become. I'm super stoked for your finalization of villagers and end game to make BTW a complete experience from start to finish. I wish there were more game designers with your tenacity FC. Way to always stick to your guns and bring us a product that is worthy of our time! I will be following your work until I no longer play games (which will probably be when i die). Thanks again for such a great experience.
"The people who started the war are the reason. And unless you fight to get rid of the reason, nothing will ever change. I fight to get rid of the reason."-Bart
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BinoAl
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by BinoAl »

Good god Flowerchild, you sound like... a flowerchild! :)
I admittedly haven't played much BTW lately, due to several addictions to other games. But, I think it's about time for me to give it another playthrough, it sounds like a totally different game now :)
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piter_50
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by piter_50 »

I've been loving the game in its current form and you definitely have reason to be proud of your work. I too have been pushing off various games in favor of BTW of late, games i have paid for in favor of something freely available.

I had a similar experience with chickens, herding a few into a little hole a days march from base until I could come back for them. I started with 3 chickens, lost one because i couldnt get her to come in the cave with the other 2 as night fell. The second i lost to the chickens glitching into dirt and not being able to jump up to surface level and suffocating. That last chicken is happily clucking in my base giving me an egg here and she is currently my most prized possession!

Keep up the great work and cant wait for RTH
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Gunnerman21
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by Gunnerman21 »

Wow! you're almost done? This is so cool! :D To see the beginning of the real BTW (RTH :3 )... I never thought I'd see the day :)

For now I'm putting off making a new world until all the important things you mentioned are out of the way. (I got frusterated one day and deleted all my btw worlds :( )

Keep it up Flowerchild, the savior of minecraft ;)
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Fret
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by Fret »

Seeing how much you appreciate the praise from everybody. I would like to share mine as well. I love board games and BTW feels like playing a board game on a pc. The thought that I, as a player have to put into my playing is unmatched by any computer game I have ever played. For me It's the best computer game I have played since, since .... Age of Empires 2. I make this comparison, because it's a game I played for thousands of hours over my life and BTW is the only game that comes close to that many hours.

I don't know a game designer with such a strong game philosophy, nor one that shares his thoughts so openly with his audience. Like I said before I love games, beside playing them, I think and theorise a lot about them. Playing BTW and reading what you have to say on these forums, have learned me so much about game theory. This is not just a game, it's a master-class in your philosophy on games. I can't stress this enough!

You should be proud of BTW, it's truly epic. I can't think of a better preparation for creating your own game.
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BrainNoMore
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by BrainNoMore »

First off, although I still haven't solved creating the booties (graduation exams are closing so I can't really play right now), I did spend two afternoons cursing your name in a most loving and fun fulfilled way so props for that :)

When I first started playing minecraft I managed to build small bunker with peaking/snipping hole next to main entrance and secondary rooftop exit with snipping nest and ladders leading to backyard exit... It was the ugliest thing I ever built, and thing I was most proud in vanilla, because it served it's purpose and made me feel safe. By then my PVE skills evolved, and now I am satisfied with slapping a wooden door and keeping a stone sword or better handy to even feel safe against a zombie politely knocking on my door at middle of night with it's creeper friend - I will even venture out at night with nothing but a stone sword without thinking twice. But then there is surviving in BTW - my walls are constantly evolving - first I installed machicolations to deal with mobs hiding from sun under my crenelations, than my battlements got arrow-slits to safely dispatch skeletons, and then the mob I treated for the longest time as annoyance at it's best - spider (most of my fortifications previously even weren't spider proof as I just didn't care about defending from them) proved most formidable to defend against, so in effort to protect my chickens, chicken coop got mounted on staddle stones (stone pedestal mounted on stone column looks and works great).

At begging I wasn't a fan of nomad lifestyle, but by now it has evolved into frantic race for food mixed with extensive nightly planning while begging to be sparred yet another night - by now I like it so much that instead of just constructing nether railways I venture off to build small fortified roadside bases reachable within a day or two between my main base, spawn and strongholds.

And as for late game - Everything feels so rewarding - I keep searching excuses to walk around my latest builds just to admire their design (and potentially improve them).

Last couple of months with each new release I feel a bit festive - only other time i felt like that as a gamer was when I first got my hands on Half Life 2, with HL1 being the tittle that first introduced me to FPS and is still thirst one I think of - I felt like I am witnessing greatness. So I am glad to read you are a bit festive too, because you sir have created a masterpiece so immersive that swallows you and doesn't want to spit you out.
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utakataJ6
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (week of May 27)

Post by utakataJ6 »

Brillient.
You know, right now I'm mostly playing on a sort of placeholder world while I wait for that auto-stratification tool, and I find myself realizing over and over again just how much BTW has improved my skill at Minecraft in general. I never thought, when I was doing my vanilla let's play and coding Mediate, that I was a particularly great PVE combat person, but now I see just how poorly I was compared to what the hardcore early game in BTW has brought out.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you sure as hell know what you're doing. Time to keep being patient :)
morvelaira:
Not all Minecraft players have stamped down the knee-jerk, lawful-good Superman reaction yet. We do hold a rather high proportion of the enlightened on these forums ;)
flowerchild:
Not to mention a mod that trains the player to be rather morally ambivalent ;)
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