Hardcore Stone / Hardcore Stone Tools

[DerAlex]

Hello there!

I'm a really REALLY new player to this mod, althou I play vMC since the early alpha, and I'm loving BTW so far, I'm up to steel in my first world. The Tier- and Age prodgression turn this sandbox into a real game. But you don't need a random guy to tell you you did a great job. You know that yourself ;)

On to my suggestion...

A few months ago, ether Dinnerbone or Jeb tweeted the idea to change all recipes that require cobble to use smooth stone instead (everything except the furnace of course). Obviously it was shot down by the community instantly, and I kinda agree that it would not really fit in vanilla minecraft.

But I think it would fit in BTW, with the more realistic approach to everything (not counting powered cake obviously...), since you can't really break stone to dust and rubble and use that crap to build a nice and functioning pick or axe or whatever without refining it in some way.

Simpy sticking it in the furnance is also not very realistic, but refining cobble to smooth stone via furnace is already in the game, so why not use it.

TL:DR: Why not require the player to refine cobble to stone via the furnace in order to use the stone for tools (or even in all cobble-recipes)?

I think it would fit well in this mod.

[Foxy Boxes]

Have you even played with the latest release? If not then I suggest you go do that, you'll instantly see why your suggestion is a bad one for this mod.

[icynewyear]

[DerAlex]

I've played ONLY with the last version. I don't know wooden picks with more than 2 or stone picks with more than 7 uses. This is how I started this mod. And I like it. As a completely new player I don't know it any other way in BTW. And I argue that that gives me a more objective view on it :D

In my first post I used the word realistic in order to describe BTW, but I don't think that is very accurate... I struggle to find a more fitting word... I need a word that is like laborious, but without the negative meaning...

What is having to crank a handcrank for 216 x 5 times in order to build a windmill if not tedious? What is finding, multiplying and feeding wolves and wait for them to shit in order to get slightly better leather if not cumbersome? What is roaming the map for hours to find a village that FINALLY has potatoes or carrots and then DYING on the way home only to be spawned god knows where if not outright cruel?

I mean nothing in that paragraph in a negative way... For example, Amnesia is a great horror game especially BECAUSE it's not fun. BTW is somewhat the same for me. The sense of accomplishment in BTW, for me, is unparalleled. It is a greatly designed game, because it's not centered on "fun" but on achieving things through labor, at least at the start of a new world. The more you advance in the tiers, the more easy it is to play BTW. This would not change that, since at a later point in the playthrou, you have a wall of furnaces and coal out the vazoo anyway, and having smoothstone readily available for axes or shovels is not a problem in the slightest.

I see why this suggestion might be seen as making it even harder to start a new game, but it really isn't... there was a thread/mod on reddit when Dinnerbone/Jeb first posted the idea, which changed exactly that (every recipe uses smooth stone instead of cobble), and I tried it. It's not as bad as you might think.

I ALSO see why this suggestion might be seen as unnecessary... to be honest, there is some truth to that. I just think having to refine cobble in order to make tools would fit in BTW.

I haven't coded for minecraft (yet), and I don't know how hard it is to change vanilla recipes. If its 5 minutes, why not. If it's a couple of hours, to hell with this idea :D (The mod that changed all the recipes in vMC popped up on reddit almost instantly, so I don't think it's that much of a deal programming-wise)

[icynewyear]

You may want to check the rules of this subforum. Making your first post here is highly highly frowned upon.

[Stormweaver]

The problem is that with the recent changes to the stone tools, the balance is still up in the air a bit; people are just getting used to it, and flower's still refining the pacing of the early game.

It doesn't mean it's a bad suggestion as such; more that it's a bit early to be asking for changes to a system that just got overhauled.

[DerAlex]

The problem is that with the recent changes to the stone tools, the balance is still up in the air a bit; people are just getting used to it, and flower's still refining the pacing of the early game.

It doesn't mean it's a bad suggestion as such; more that it's a bit early to be asking for changes to a system that just got overhauled.

Ok. I understand. Sorry for the bad timing. I did not know/forgot the early game overhaul was this recend... as I said, even though I played over 30 hours already, I only play since sunday.

My theory is that this change further brings across the point that you have no business in starting a mine in the early game, and are encouraged to search naturally generated holes and caves for iron and coal, more or less live as a nomad the first few days, aquiring as much food as possible. Ergo, making the "unwanted" playstyle of setting up a base or mine on the first day more of a hassle, and instead making the desired playstyle even more attractive. You need a furnace on your first night anyway, for cooking food and as a light source.

You may want to check the rules of this subforum. Making your first post here is highly highly frowned upon.

I read that. I'm sorry for not trying this mod sooner. Mostly sorry for myself.

Thats a bit off topic, but I think the name of the mod does not do it justice nor any favors... I knew about the mods existence for over 2 years, even before the yogscast-video, but I didn't try it before this weekend. Coincidentally, because of the idea by the MC-Devs that gave me the idea for this suggestion in the first place, I searched for a hard, hardcore, tier-based, realist-ish mod and found out, more or less by accident, BTW is EXACTLY that... I thought it was windmills and a saw like it was 2 years ago... I didn't even think it was still maintained... back to topic, sorry for rambling...

Imagine the wood pick would have 3 instead of 2 uses. 4 wooden picks would then give you a furnace and enough cobble to smelt and built a stone pick. Then you are free to mine and smelt some stone throu the first night, and you pack up your stuff in the morning to carry on exploring. FC himself said overworld exploration is the desired playstyle the first few days, so anything that discourages early stripmining AND isn't complete bullshit (this is even based on logic, since loose cobble is not a very good material for tools) shouldn't be immediately discarded just because the OPs imaginary ePenis is only 1 posts long :D

Peace

[Iodinium]

Wooden picks are supposed to have 1 use, not 2 - it was apparently a SMP bug, fixed for 4.71

Unless that changes massively (considering that upping that to 2 would be doubling it, I think any increase would be massive), requiring 11 wooden pickaxes to make the first stone pickaxe seems like a bit too much.

[DerAlex]

Wooden picks are supposed to have 1 use, not 2 - it was apparently a SMP bug, fixed for 4.71

Unless that changes massively (considering that upping that to 2 would be doubling it, I think any increase would be massive), requiring 11 wooden pickaxes to make the first stone pickaxe seems like a bit too much.

Ok, I did not know that... I read the changelog and thought by "Fixing the bug" he meant the tool breaks after the 2nd use, and not twice after each use. My bad, sorry. I play exclusively SMP on a 1 man server so that I have access to the same world from different PCs, and I haven't updated yet, even thou i love Hardcore Fishing.

11 wooden picks for one stone pick seems a bit harsh, I agree. On the other hand... 4 wings x 6 cloth x 9 hemp fibers x 5 cranks each for a windmill... just sayin'...

[SpaceGuyR]

4 wings x 6 cloth x 9 hemp fibers x 5 cranks each for a windmill... just sayin'...

Equals 270 cranks, or 54 hemp. One hemp gives 4 fibers. Before Hardcore Hunger, I made more than one millstone+handcrank to get it done faster, or just do it as you harvest instead of all at once.

[FlowerChild]

Ok, to the OP: please spend some more time with the mod before making suggestions. I normally ban people automatically for making suggestions on their first post unless they are truly brilliant, and while this one isn't, you're also obviously an intelligent individual who is enjoying the mod a great deal and who has the potential of contributing to the community in a positive fashion in time.

As Stormweaver said above, this kind of suggestion is premature given the state of flux the early game is at present, and I will also add that it's premature given the amount of time you've been playing.

Get to know the community a bit better before posting further suggestions, and all should be well.