Highschool punishment.

[Panda]

This story just... Wow, 2 teenage guys get in a fight, principle gives them a choice, suspension or hold hands all day long.

Heres a cover of it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/3 ... 18698.html

Also:

Spoiler

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[FlowerChild]

Wow...no, not good. I have no doubt that if it were a male and female student, no one would be trying to defend it.

EDIT: Like seriously: How on earth is an adult telling two minors to engage in a simulated romantic act even vaguely tolerable regardless of gender, or whether they were given a "choice" as to whether to do so or face other punishment?

Just: ick.

[Panda]

On a different note I doubt the'll get in a fight again.

[FlowerChild]

On a different note I doubt the'll get in a fight again.

Yes, people that have been sexually harassed/violated tend to be rather timid. Go team.

First question I'd ask the principal if I were investigating this incident would be "did you touch and/or fondle yourself at any point during the punishment?"

[Azdoine]

Wow... like, is this for real? I'd rather take suspension than humiliation.
There isn't even any merit to the punishment. Sure, the kids won't fight again, but for all the wrong reasons. And what about the other kids, who get a free pass to mock the victims? This encourages more bad behavior than good.

Principal=Total Idiot or Pedophile. Not sure which will be worse for the students at his school.

[FlowerChild]

Principal=Total Idiot or Pedophile. Not sure which will be worse for the students at his school.

I doubt he was taking any kind of sexual gratification out of it (at least I hope not), however my post above was more about giving him a taste of his own medicine in terms of being put in the spot of being made sexually uncomfortable in front of his peers by someone in a position of authority.

I think it more likely he was well intentioned but totally failed in thinking through the implications of his actions....or he's just a homophobic jerk that thinks having students be called gay in order to punish them is somehow ok.

[Miss_Kat]

This is so wrong and gross for all the reasons Flowerchild's said. Public humiliation should never, ever, ever be a fucking punishment for kids (or anyone, really.) Not only does it not teach them anything, they get to walk away from the experience with fun prizes like internalized shame and new shiny justifications for homophobia.

There are so many ways the principal could've gone with the "forced to spend time together" route without doing this. At least it looks like he might be reprimanded by the board, based on the linked article.

[Mikko_blu]

As a Homosexual, This is seriously offensive. Words like Fag and the lot are tolerable, but this just makes my blood pressure rise. Shit like this is the base reason why i still can't get married. This teaches kids it's okay to discriminate against gays, and this is what pollutes the next generation of adults.

[EvanT]

Is it legal to sentence pupil to work in the USA? Because any kind of punishment has been taken away from the hands of teachers in Germany. No extra homework, no extra chalkboard cleaning, no detention,.. I got the impression that exclusion is the only option left. And that is a very bad choice (the pupil will enjoy the extra free time while it sets him even more behind in his learning process)

If he had make them holding hands within a separate room maybe while a teacher (himself) is supervising letting them talk about their problem it would have been a different story (still border line) but placing them on the yard with others filming.. It is like a public social execution. There have been suicides for lesser reasons.

[bmanfoley]

This is a horrible idea. The principal is not only encouraging, but relying on students to think less of homosexuals and make fun of them. Even if it weren't that, relying on students making fun of those being punished in any way is a horrible idea. Nobody should be supporting bullying of any sort

[Rianaru]

I sincerely hope that this guy meant to do the right thing and was prevented from doing so by his own utter idiocy. I don't have enough faith left in the human race to lose if this was completely intentional.

[ignika42]

Is it legal to sentence pupil to work in the USA? Because any kind of punishment has been taken away from the hands of teachers in Germany. No extra homework, no extra chalkboard cleaning, no detention,.. I got the impression that exclusion is the only option left. And that is a very bad choice (the pupil will enjoy the extra free time while it sets him even more behind in his learning process)

Not sure if it varies by state or not, but I'm fairly certain it isn't. The high school my younger brother is currently going to has a lot of issues with students getting into fights and such and their go-to solution is always suspension; That does little to nothing to discourage it though because as you said, they just enjoy the extra free time, and all the while are missing out on what they could have learned.

[tom_savage]

Yeah, coming from someone who got suspended in High School, you get the chance to go to an "opportunity" school. It's guarded and you go with other suspended or expelled students. You also get to make-up all the work you will miss, by doing middle school work, and go home 3 to 4 hours before you normally would. In the end, it was a nice vacation from school.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Or you know, the school could have a healthier idea about kids and teens. They fight. Their blood is boiling. If it gets bad, talk to the parents. What's so bloody complicated? Over-pampering kids is just as bad as inventing ridiculous punishment such as the above. There is a middle ground, and it has to be on a case by case basis.

Maybe it's because both my parents were teachers and I have a lot of experience with school and kids, I dunno, but I'm adamant that there is a middle ground and both parents/guardians and teachers have make the effort to find it.

[FlowerChild]

Well, while I agree with the middle-ground approach in general, it's not always effective.

For example, it was my dad that taught me how to fight in response to my complaints that kids were acting like jerks at school. I don't think the principal then trying to discuss with him the fights I was getting into afterwards would have been particularly effective :)

[Rianaru]

Or you know, the school could have a healthier idea about kids and teens. They fight. Their blood is boiling.

Yeah. I'd be more worried about the kids if they WEREN'T fighting. And I'm not sure how much of this is different teachers and how much of it is the times changing, but when I went to high school(not THAT long ago), if the teachers saw a fight, they would break it up and tell the kids to go home for the day. Usually after both parties got a few good hits in to get it out of their systems.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Well, while I agree with the middle-ground approach in general, it's not always effective.

For example, it was my dad that taught me how to fight in response to my complaints that kids were acting like jerks at school. I don't think the principal then trying to discuss with him the fights I was getting into afterwards would have been particularly effective :)

Which is why I said it has to be on a case by case basis ;]

Generally I do not believe in punishment as an effective tool, but that is a whole other discussion that can get very political, so I'll leave it by saying detention/suspension etc, work a lot like prison.

They take the subject from a beneficial learning environment and subject them to something that will probably make the problems more pronounced once it is over.

[Mr_Hosed]

My old man would have punched the principal for this kind of thing. Humiliation isn't punishment.

All effective punishments falls into 2 catagories. Do something you don't want to do or don't do something you want to do. The best punishments incorporate both and should be left to the parents and not the schools. If a parent doesn't want to be a parent then it's their own damn fault they end up with worthless sacks for yound adults. who never graduate because they get kicked out of every school they're in.

[DaveYanakov]

Community service is a fairly common sentence in juvenille criminal cases here. That sort of tactic could apply to scholastic punishments if handled correctly. It would basically be detention where the kid does more than sit around for an hour and a half after school ends and would be a hell of a lot more effective than humiliation.

[Nexus Trimean]

If a parent doesn't want to be a parent then it's their own damn fault they end up with worthless sacks for yound adults. who never graduate because they get kicked out of every school they're in.

That's all well and good until they are your students and Your pay is based on there scores, but little johnny doesn't want to do his math homework.

Most punishments that a school can give out are ineffectual at best, and too many parents can't/won't give there children the discipline that they need. So it falls to the schools to try and correct the problem with the few tools they have, and most the time those do more harm than good.

[PatriotBob]

I understand and applaud the whole outside the box thinking here. Suspensions was always one of those "didn't want to be there anyways" type things. More of a vacation than punishment and likely won't solve the issue of fighting. However the whole holding hands thing while not necessarily a romantic event was the wrong way to go about it. There are better ways to get them past fighting than that.

Unfortunately right idea with terrible execution totally defeats the point.