First off, I do appreciate the direct response to my qualms, I am aware this isn't the first time the issue has been raised.
FlowerChild wrote:Any way you look at it, I can't see diamond being an effective material for the construction of any but the most primitive of tools. To my mind, its inclusion in the Minecraft tech-tree is a bit of an oddity.
How does one shape diamonds into effective tools? The answer is: you can't. You're basically stuck with whatever shape of diamond the ground yields up.
The idea with the steel tools is it's not the hardness of the material that makes them more efficient, it's the fact that you can refine the shape of the tool, and also form it into something that can be effectively attached to a proper handle instead of just strapping a large diamond to a stick (which is how I imagine the diamond tools).
Let's put it this way: If you were stranded in the middle of nowhere and left to fend for yourself, would you be happier to find diamonds or iron? Outside of some uses in modern technology, diamond is a fairly useless substance when you get down to it. It can't be easily worked, and historically it was valued for its rarity and aesthetic properties rather than for its practicality.
So, in terms of "realism" I think this one is a no-brainer. I think the Refined tools in the latest release make way more sense than the crude tools that are found in vanilla to begin with.
OK, I was under the impression that minecraft and possibly this mod didn't focus 100% on realism and the way things work, but more on the gameplay. I realise now whereas thats the case in minecraft (lets be honest, almost everything about the game doesn't fit in with the real world... the nether, the sun rising in the north and setting in the south, etc.), but that is not the case here, so I'll try and factor realism into my arguments in the future.
Also, yes, you're correct, diamond, especially at this point in a tech tree, would be useless.
FlowerChild wrote:Explain to me how I could have *logically* made diamond part of the tech-tree, and I'm all ears, but all the solutions I've heard so far (like diamond-bladed saws or whatever) wind up making very little to no sense if you consider the physical properties of diamonds.
My thoughts towards this have essentially been using diamonds or obsidian blocks to line the crucible. I'm aware crucibles can be made solely or largely of clay, but they can also be augmented with higher temperature-resistant materials (such as the above). If you want a mechanism for this, it could involve three cruicible types: the pre-kiln clay form, the post-kiln "unrefined crucible", which is then placed above the hibachis, and then a certain amount of diamond/obsidian is placed inside, then heated on a single hibachi flame, which turns it into a "refined crucible". If heated on a double (bellows) flame before being refined, it simply melts into clay.
But apart from this, my idea stream is pretty dry :P
FlowerChild wrote:Then, there's the question of game balance and "breaking the game-progression". Yes, I am fully aware that diamond is still in the game and it is now effectively lacking an in-game use. I don't view this as "breaking" anything, but rather changing how the game plays out in its latter stages (since I think it exceedingly unlikely that a player will be jumping straight to steel tools without ever using diamond). I've given use to many vanilla objects and systems that were of limited use before (lapis, netherrack, glowstone dust, wheat, wood...wolves), and this happens to be a rare instance of when I actually downgrade the significance of a vanilla item for the sake of continuity within the mod.
What I feel I've done is shift the latter stages of the game ever so slightly away from mining so you can spend less time doing it and focus more on other in-game activities. I've replaced some of the effort of mining to find diamonds with a means of creating a better substance through other activities (namely, developing and using the mod's features) I've also done so with an intended use for diamonds coming up in the tech-tree that will retain some of their value (since it's an announced feature, I'll even just say straight out that diamonds will be used in the Lens).
So yeah guys, I don't see the problem here. What I've largely done is temporarily reduce the value of diamonds, and turn them into an object similar to Hemp, Dung, the Haft, or Tallow: an object in the mod which serves no real purpose when first released, because I have plans for it down the road.
In other words, what this comes down to is the inevitable "What does Dung do?!" questions that I always get when I release new features, except in this case, the question happens to relate to a vanilla item that I've temporarily nerfed. I can assure you though, that in the future I'll be no more responsive to "What does diamond do?!" then I am to other questions of the sort.
You can filng it and wave it about.
Over the course of my previous few posts, I was thinking about the possible future uses of diamond that you had in mind (although lens didn't actually occur to me at the time, its fairly obvious now haha), which has really countered my arguments.
At the end of the day, the issues I have raised aren't the real reason I've been posting against how "easy" steel is to come by. I've read most of the topics on the forums before deciding to post, and when I think about the process to make steel compared to what you get out of it, I just have an uneasy feeling about it; which I've only had about a few other parts of this mod/game. When I read the turntable update, I had the same feeling about the number of settings (after learning the impact). Also, the more I come to understand block dispensers, I have the same qualms (but I guess they're just too ingrained to be changed now).
The arguments I've put forward are only the convenient problems I can come up with so far to justify my uneasiness, and I think that I just don't have enough experience with - and there just isn't enough data about - steel to say one way or the other whether it's overpowered.
It's perfectly (and probably more than) likely that I'm wrong. I've had the same worries about how far water can flow in the vanilla game, but I've changed my mind over time. I'll probably get over this with the addition of the new features with diamond.
