Likely changes to F3 and its implications

[Nerdasaurus_Rex]

Hey guys. Apparently F3 is soon going to be obsolete. What are some of the changes that this will bring about? what might some of the fixes be? One thing that I can think of is that it would be hard to tell distances when building mega-projects, but could be solved with some sort of range sensor. What are some changes that you guys see?

[SterlingRed]

A lot of this has already been discussed at length in the dev topic.

Does anybody use F3 for building or measuring exact dimensions of rooms ? This is the only thing i found it useful as i wasn't really interested in my global coordinates ever but the "relative coordinates" between one wall and another wall or one floor and a ceiling.

Actually, there was an idea proposed a long time ago, that I really liked and said I would implement.

It involves just placing stakes in the ground and using string to mark straight-lines and measure distance, much like I believe was used in historical construction. I've been planning on doing it ever since, but couldn't justify the blockID usage when the player could just use F3.

That's about to change now, at which point this feature will become much more useful, and be bumped way up in my priorities.

F3 wasn't just detrimental to suspension of disbelief. It was eliminating the need for a whole bunch of cool existing aspects of gameplay, and also acting to discourage development of what could be some very cool features that were rendered useless by the GPS.

[Nerdasaurus_Rex]

Apologies, just wanted a place to talk about it without clogging up FC's dev diary.

[FlowerChild]

I approve of that. Thanks :)

[SterlingRed]

Oh there's always more discussion to be had, i'm not trying to discourage that. Just wanted to make sure you saw what's already been discussed in case that answers a question you already have, or brings to mind a new question.

[Nerdasaurus_Rex]

I approve of that. Thanks :)

I feel so loved :P

One thing that I realized was that another way of measuring distance would be to place string on the ground, then count how much string there is. The only problem with this is that with the small hitbox and need for a string farm could make this a very annoying way of measuring.

[Sarudak]

One thing that I realized was that another way of measuring distance would be to place string on the ground, then count how much string there is. The only problem with this is that with the small hitbox and need for a string farm could make this a very annoying way of measuring.

Easier and cheaper to do with dirt blocks. I use that often for measuring distances. Another is to place a dirt block every 5 blocks and use it like a ruler.

[IowaGuy]

How about a working compass so we don't have to look at the sun?

No - I'm just kidding. Ease off that ban button please. The sun works fine for me. Just getting that out of the way before it crops up.

I mostly use F3 as an entity count for mob traps and to make sure my players villagers arnt getting out of control.

I lack spider vision so it's a useful, if cheat like, tool. Without F3 I would just make light locks wired up and windows so I can flip the switch and peak inside. Which I guess is a good thing. Multiblock system being built to replace a meta game button.

[Nerdasaurus_Rex]

One thing that I realized was that another way of measuring distance would be to place string on the ground, then count how much string there is. The only problem with this is that with the small hitbox and need for a string farm could make this a very annoying way of measuring.

Easier and cheaper to do with dirt blocks. I use that often for measuring distances. Another is to place a dirt block every 5 blocks and use it like a ruler.

Good point, but at long distances it may get a little bit confusing, especially since blocks stack up to 64, and in our base 10 mindset this can get confusing for some people.

[Ferrus.Manus]

I mostly use F3 as an entity count for mob traps and to make sure my players villagers arnt getting out of control.

I lack spider vision so it's a useful, if cheat like, tool. Without F3 I would just make light locks wired up and windows so I can flip the switch and peak inside. Which I guess is a good thing. Multiblock system being built to replace a meta game button.

I don't know, entity count would fall into performance info and will likely stay.

[Splee999]

I think one thing last thing that wasn't discussed much in the other thread was the problem of finding other people's bases. For example, in the past we could just whisper the coords of our base to someone we wanted to lead there. However, with f3 out of the picture, this will become incredibly difficult to do without building a massively obvious road or something. Cause, lets face it, there aren't many features worth noting in Minecraft that you could call directions off of. Example:

"Um, turn right at that cool looking arch, and then turn a little left at the hill with the birch tree, and then, follow the ravine until a cave breaks off..."

[Sarudak]

I mostly use F3 as an entity count for mob traps and to make sure my players villagers arnt getting out of control.

I lack spider vision so it's a useful, if cheat like, tool. Without F3 I would just make light locks wired up and windows so I can flip the switch and peak inside. Which I guess is a good thing. Multiblock system being built to replace a meta game button.

I have to disagree with you here. Concerns about entity counts it a metagame problem (optimizing for performance). So a meta game tool like f3 is as or more appropriate than an in game system.

[Inatun]

I think one thing last thing that wasn't discussed much in the other thread was the problem of finding other people's bases. For example, in the past we could just whisper the coords of our base to someone we wanted to lead there. However, with f3 out of the picture, this will become incredibly difficult to do without building a massively obvious road or something. Cause, lets face it, there aren't many features worth noting in Minecraft that you could call directions off of. Example:

"Um, turn right at that cool looking arch, and then turn a little left at the hill with the birch tree, and then, follow the ravine until a cave breaks off..."

This is where the new map system comes into play. Once they release it, you'll be able to make maps that can span massive distances as well as maps that get down to the block. We'll also be getting the ability to copy maps so we can share them with other people. So long as one person knows where to find the other person's base, they can map out the route between the two bases and give the other person a copy once they get there.

[Itamarcu]

I actually built a mob trap in my current world for the first time, and since I read somewhere it'll function faster if it's built on a full chunk I used F3 to build it 18*18 to leave the mobs a full chunk to spawn in.
3 hours of work later, when the tower was a few dozens of blocks high and after I built most of the spawning floors, I decided to look at it from above. It turns out I miscounted and built it 17*17. Damn you, F3.

[Husbag3]

I think a relatively simple solution would be a block that stacks to a nice round number like 100. Then you could easy work out distance from there. 64 just makes things confusing when counting stacks.

PS: 1000 posts :)

[Sarudak]

I think a relatively simple solution would be a block that stacks to a nice round number like 100. Then you could easy work out distance from there. 64 just makes things confusing when counting stacks.

PS: 1000 posts :)

Meh. I think most of us have been playing minecraft long enough to be thinking in stacks, half-stacks, quarter-stacks, etc. And lets be honest that means you're operating just fine in binary. All this garbage about us not being able to think in binary/hex is just training and force of habit with a little bit of lack of appropriate language for conceptualizing thrown in.

[Six]

I think one thing last thing that wasn't discussed much in the other thread was the problem of finding other people's bases. For example, in the past we could just whisper the coords of our base to someone we wanted to lead there. However, with f3 out of the picture, this will become incredibly difficult to do without building a massively obvious road or something. Cause, lets face it, there aren't many features worth noting in Minecraft that you could call directions off of. Example:

"Um, turn right at that cool looking arch, and then turn a little left at the hill with the birch tree, and then, follow the ravine until a cave breaks off..."

This also encourages going out to meet someone to lead them back to your base yourself, which I think is a good thing. "I'll meet you at the abandoned village by the desert, North East of spawn, then lead you from there".

Also, there was a lot of discussion on the measuring thing several months back in the suggestions forum about survey pegs.

[milkmandan]

Also, there was a lot of discussion on the measuring thing several months back in the suggestions forum about survey pegs.

Oh how I wish there was something like that when I was laying out the Colosseum...

[FlowerChild]

Also, there was a lot of discussion on the measuring thing several months back in the suggestions forum about survey pegs.

Thanks for that link. I was just going to search for that thread myself to determine who I should credit for that excellent idea :)

[heyz]

Two things I know I'll miss that I use f3 all the time for:

It discourages long range exploration- no idea how many times I've gone 1000+ blocks out to find a mob, village, or stronghold, and the only way to find my way back was with coordinates. I guess I'd have to have a stack of maps and make them as I go, which is kind of annoying since a lot of my exploration happens early in a new world, but that does little to help underground exploration and excavation.

Depth- we build and mine in 3 dimensions, lining up a water drop into a factory, finding a slime chunk, or just finding level 12 for strip mining will get much more laborious.

I have no solutions, just will miss it.

[FlowerChild]

I have no solutions, just will miss it.

Considering neither of the things you mention are real problems, it doesn't surprise me you don't have solutions.

[FlowerChild]

To be more verbose in my retort:

It discourages long range exploration- no idea how many times I've gone 1000+ blocks out to find a mob, village, or stronghold, and the only way to find my way back was with coordinates. I guess I'd have to have a stack of maps and make them as I go, which is kind of annoying since a lot of my exploration happens early in a new world, but that does little to help underground exploration and excavation.

Build way-markers. Place torches.

Depth- we build and mine in 3 dimensions, lining up a water drop into a factory,

If you're dropping water into a factory, then you already have a measure of a straight vertical line: the water.

finding a slime chunk,

Look for slimes. There's your chunk.

or just finding level 12 for strip mining will get much more laborious.

Dig to bedrock a few layers below, and count up from there.

[BinoAl]

Also, there was a lot of discussion on the measuring thing several months back in the suggestions forum about survey pegs.

Huh, I could've swore that Raust had come up with that and posted it in Off-Topic. Thanks for indirectly correcting me :)

[FlowerChild]

Huh, I could've swore that Raust had come up with that and posted it in Off-Topic. Thanks for indirectly correcting me :)

No, Raust came up with Companion Carts, which is still on my todo list ;)

[Sarudak]

Depth- we build and mine in 3 dimensions, lining up a water drop into a factory,

Historically lining digging projects up has been a very difficult task anyway. Even modern construction projects have had difficulty with this.