BTW Deco Add-on (pre-release v0.4.5 - updated 6/11)

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kaos78414
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by kaos78414 »

morvelaira wrote:I am more worried about you and your workload more than anything else. I know it doesn't seem like enough now, but I would advise going a little slowly until you have some time and experice maintaing it. Better slow and steady than heady and unwieldly. I know it can be exciting. Just be sure :)
Well thank you for worrying about me! :)

But yeah, you're right. I think after the bees I'm going to settle down and fix some stuff on my to-do list while I jot down ideas for new additions. I've got a long time until the increased block ID's I think, so I can definitely slow down a bit.
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TheAnarchitect
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by TheAnarchitect »

I'm more worried that as you add new features your mod will lose focus. One of the best things about BTW is that every addition builds on the last one, forming a cohesive whole. Very little about BTW meanders about, and the stuff that seems out of place is usually just waiting for the other half of the combo to be introduced.

Earlier in the thread, you summed your mod up in the best way I could think of: Little hobbies steve can take up that result in Aesthetic blocks. As long as any addition you add supports that theme, then you are doing it right. That said, perhaps each hobby could be a separate mod? That way you could install, say, BTW botany for the sakura trees and flowers, while BTW insectery adds lightning bugs and bees.

Another thing to think about is that this is a mod for BTW. That doesn't just mean it uses BTW blocks in recipes, or adds recipes to certain BTW blocks. BTW adds processes to the game. If you want your mod to feel like a BTW add-on, it should add processes. Take the mead-barrel for example. Instead of crafting it around a flask of honey, I think it ought to be a fermenter. That is, you build the barrel, then click on it to get a UI. Put the honey in the inventory, and it slowly ferments into mead. Then you could add other recipes, like using wheat for beer. And perhaps these drinks then have a use as bases for potions.

Adding your own proccess blocks also frees you up from having to code new recipes for Flowerchild's process blocks, which frees you from having to touch his code. Another idea I had while brainstorming about this was a Press. This would be a block that took mechanical power from the top and pressed organic items to extract liquids. What would make it special is that it would always leave behind a leftover item that the stuff was pressed out of. For example, if you put a honeycomb in it, you'd get a flask of honey and wax leavings. I had a slew of recipe ideas for it: If you press a flower you get the appropriate dye and flower seeds, which will grow into the flower. Pressing sawdust would extract tannic acid, an alternative to dung for tanning hides, and leave behind paper (don't worry, this doesn't invalidate dung on the tech tree, because you have to have a saw to get sawdust, and that requires tanned leather). Sometimes what gets left behind or extracted could simply be useless. By adding the press, or the fermenting barrel, or whatever type of processing devices you imagine, you make a real splash on the tech tree, and maybe avoid having to do too much with existing processes.

I'm sorry, this was a big brain-dump of stuff I was thinking about at work today. I apologize if it's a slew of unwanted ideas.
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kaos78414
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by kaos78414 »

TheAnarchitect wrote:Earlier in the thread, you summed your mod up in the best way I could think of: Little hobbies steve can take up that result in Aesthetic blocks. As long as any addition you add supports that theme, then you are doing it right. That said, perhaps each hobby could be a separate mod? That way you could install, say, BTW botany for the sakura trees and flowers, while BTW insectery adds lightning bugs and bees.
That's an interesting idea, and I'll definitely have to consider releasing this in different packages. In fact, that does seem like the best course of action, except that I may run into areas where its difficult to separate two parts of the add-on (for instance the fireflies being necessary for lanterns, so they would be required for a Japanese themed package)
TheAnarchitect wrote:Another thing to think about is that this is a mod for BTW. That doesn't just mean it uses BTW blocks in recipes, or adds recipes to certain BTW blocks. BTW adds processes to the game. If you want your mod to feel like a BTW add-on, it should add processes. Take the mead-barrel for example. Instead of crafting it around a flask of honey, I think it ought to be a fermenter. That is, you build the barrel, then click on it to get a UI. Put the honey in the inventory, and it slowly ferments into mead. Then you could add other recipes, like using wheat for beer. And perhaps these drinks then have a use as bases for potions.

Adding your own proccess blocks also frees you up from having to code new recipes for Flowerchild's process blocks, which frees you from having to touch his code. Another idea I had while brainstorming about this was a Press. This would be a block that took mechanical power from the top and pressed organic items to extract liquids. What would make it special is that it would always leave behind a leftover item that the stuff was pressed out of. For example, if you put a honeycomb in it, you'd get a flask of honey and wax leavings. I had a slew of recipe ideas for it: If you press a flower you get the appropriate dye and flower seeds, which will grow into the flower. Pressing sawdust would extract tannic acid, an alternative to dung for tanning hides, and leave behind paper (don't worry, this doesn't invalidate dung on the tech tree, because you have to have a saw to get sawdust, and that requires tanned leather). Sometimes what gets left behind or extracted could simply be useless. By adding the press, or the fermenting barrel, or whatever type of processing devices you imagine, you make a real splash on the tech tree, and maybe avoid having to do too much with existing processes.
This directly contradicts the idea of "little hobbies," by making them large processes. I decided I want to stay away from creating my own processing blocks, unless no block in BTW would make sense for that purpose. I do however want some of what I add to be automate-able in some way - it will add to BTW in the sense that you'll need to think of ways to automate these processes, simple as they are on their own. I currently don't have to touch any BTW code anyway to add recipes to it, as it seems certain bits of the API are already in place (it's literally as simple as one line of code in my mod file to add a recipe to the cauldron/crucible/anvil). Don't get me wrong I like these ideas - but it just feels like it would be too much work for very little reward.
TheAnarchitect wrote:I'm sorry, this was a big brain-dump of stuff I was thinking about at work today. I apologize if it's a slew of unwanted ideas.
No I definitely appreciate your input. I think you're very right that I should stick to the theme of little hobbies, and for each new addition I'm going to take that into account. :)
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

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And just like that, you've used your mod's core idea to reject a "cool" idea that doesn't fit the spirit of the mod as you intended. I think my work as advisor is done here.
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Marasambala
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by Marasambala »

kaos78414 wrote: Don't get me wrong I like these ideas - but it just feels like it would be too much work for very little reward.
...and there's more of FCs wisdom coming through your thought process.
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Ferrus.Manus
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by Ferrus.Manus »

kaos78414 wrote:That's an interesting idea, and I'll definitely have to consider releasing this in different packages. In fact, that does seem like the best course of action, except that I may run into areas where its difficult to separate two parts of the add-on (for instance the fireflies being necessary for lanterns, so they would be required for a Japanese themed package)
Maybe just have a one install with a config file in which you can disable features and blocks individually?
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kaos78414
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by kaos78414 »

TheAnarchitect wrote:And just like that, you've used your mod's core idea to reject a "cool" idea that doesn't fit the spirit of the mod as you intended. I think my work as advisor is done here.
Don't give up your position as adviser just yet! I value your opinion on how valuable a block might towards aesthetic improvements (in fact I'm jealous of your architectural skill :3). So continued input is always welcome. I think maybe the best way to go about thinking of aesthetic additions would be to think of something you've built - and if you thought while building it that you were missing something. I haven't got a chance to look at your Castaway map just yet, but I was thinking of those screenshots when I thought of adding driftwood and seaweed and all that.

I think my favorite idea I've had so far is also the simplest one: Hay Bales. Not only would the block let you spruce up your farm areas, but it would act functionally as compact storage of wheat. Super simple to add, yet it feels right.
Marasambala wrote:...and there's more of FCs wisdom coming through your thought process.
Well thank you!
Ferrus.Manus wrote:Maybe just have a one install with a config file in which you can disable features and blocks individually?
Yeah that might be easier. It'll probably have to be a config file because separating the mod into different packages might cause confusion, plus I'd have to maintain them separately I think? I dunno, we'll see when I come to that point. (I've been taking a break from coding for the last few days, busy with RL stuff)
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

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kaos78414 wrote:I think maybe the best way to go about thinking of aesthetic additions would be to think of something you've built - and if you thought while building it that you were missing something.
You mean aside from the blocks that should obviously be in Vanilla, like sandstone stairs and of-color wood anything? And aside from certain rotations, like putting stairs in a corner? Mostly I'm frustrated by block behavior. Why can't I put my glass pane flat as a floor? why won't it snap to stair blocks?

Other than those frustrating things, I rarely find myself wanting something to use. Part of the fun is trying to get what I'm going for out of a limited toolkit.
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risingphoenix
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by risingphoenix »

I have greatly enjoyed the teases that you have given us and I am desperately waiting on this to be released to add on right away. Keep up the great work!
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kaos78414
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by kaos78414 »

TheAnarchitect wrote:Other than those frustrating things, I rarely find myself wanting something to use. Part of the fun is trying to get what I'm going for out of a limited toolkit.
Yeah it does provide a bit of a creative challenge. Maybe my additions will inspire new designs? Or maybe they'll challenge you in other ways? I hope so :)

As to the blocks that should be in Vanilla - I'm hoping Mojang gets around to those with the extended block ID's (but I guess it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't)
risingphoenix wrote:I have greatly enjoyed the teases that you have given us and I am desperately waiting on this to be released to add on right away. Keep up the great work!
Thanks! :D

-

In add-on related news: I did a little work on the mod tonight. I have the bees properly working except for needing a few tweaks here and there. They spawn beehives under leaf blocks occasionally, so you can create an apiary by coating the ceiling in leaves and releasing your captured bees in that enclosure.

The next thing I want to get done is figure out exactly how I want the flowers to be acquired. I've narrowed it down to two solutions that I like.

The first one is this: Killing bees. Bees would drop different pollens, which would be used like bonemeal to grow the flower its associated with. This would probably require me adding a way to breed bees, probably through the use of honey.

The second one is just using the dye of the flowers color and a dirt block to craft them. This would make it moot to craft the flowers back into dye, which I think doesn't quite feel right. I'll probably go with solution 1, but I just wanted to run these by you guys.
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by walker_boh_65 »

kaos78414 wrote: The first one is this: Killing bees. Bees would drop different pollens, which would be used like bonemeal to grow the flower its associated with. This would probably require me adding a way to breed bees, probably through the use of honey.

The second one is just using the dye of the flowers color and a dirt block to craft them. This would make it moot to craft the flowers back into dye, which I think doesn't quite feel right. I'll probably go with solution 1, but I just wanted to run these by you guys.
I personally like the first option better, just because it just feels like the right way to go. It seems to fit with how everything else in BTW and MC works. *Just my two cents, take it as you will*
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by TheAnarchitect »

It all depends on whether the flowers can spread.

And if you go the crafting route, I'd make it the same way bloodwood is made, in the cauldron.
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by Zottel »

kaos78414 wrote:
Zottel wrote:Hopefully I do not annoy anyone with this question, but will be an addon for btw (or rather this addon) compatible with better then buildcraft (if, some day, there is a buildcraft release for mc 1.2.5 so that btb can be updated)?
I don't really play with BTB, but I don't see why it wouldn't work with it. (assuming there are no ID conflicts, which there shouldn't be when I actually release this add-on)
Thanks man!
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by Panda »

Can i Get some IGP's using my texture pack?
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

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walker_boh_65 wrote:I personally like the first option better, just because it just feels like the right way to go. It seems to fit with how everything else in BTW and MC works. *Just my two cents, take it as you will*
Yeah that's the direction I'm headed I think.
TheAnarchitect wrote:It all depends on whether the flowers can spread.

And if you go the crafting route, I'd make it the same way bloodwood is made, in the cauldron.
I probably won't go so far as to make them spread - though that might allow for a way to automate their production. But I'm hoping being able to breed bees takes care of that
Panda wrote:Can i Get some IGP's using my texture pack?
-snip-
Panda I could kiss you. They look great so far! Especially the flowers and the mead barrel.

Here's a few screenshots of it:
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Panda
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

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Whats the stone (?) that looks like the default smooth stone?
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kaos78414
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by kaos78414 »

Panda wrote:Whats the stone (?) that looks like the default smooth stone?
That's the pavement block. I thought maybe you just hadn't gotten to it yet.
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by Runesmith »

Here are the textures that I said I would add. Admittedly, the flowers aren't very diverse; I figured I'd just add them as an option, though Panda's flower variants are clearly better.

Blocks:
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Items:
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Mind you any textures that are just below the first row, I put them in as potential alternates. I couldn't figure out what all of the item icons were supposed to represent.
Last edited by Runesmith on Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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RaustBlackDragon
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by RaustBlackDragon »

That orange bottle in that last spoiler... that brought back memories :)

it looks almost exactly like the orange potion from maplestory. I used to play that game, it was awesome...
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by Runesmith »

To be honest, it is from Maplestory.

I figured that the icon for mead should be different from how potions look, but the bottle icons I originally made from stratch look like absolute crap.

I hope no one minds. If they do, I'll replace it.
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kaos78414
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by kaos78414 »

The items in order are: Net, Firefly, Honey, Honeycomb, Wax, Bottle of Mead, Bucket of Mead

And great job! I'm loving these, tbh I was worried that I would have to play with vanilla textures, but between you and Panda I won't have to! Thanks guys :)
Runesmith wrote:I couldn't figure out what all of the item icons were supposed to represent.
I probably should've specified haha.
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Runesmith
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by Runesmith »

Your clarification is much appreciated!

I will update my posted item textures to relect this.

Thank you.
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TheAnarchitect
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by TheAnarchitect »

You probably better replace it: unless you specifically have permission to borrow icons then you're technically violating copywrite. This isn't a big deal if it's for personal use, but if you start to share it like you do by posting here, it's a violation of IP.
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by kaos78414 »

So I've run into a bit of an issue (depending on how you look at it) with the bees. Because vanilla creatures no longer despawn, it can be quite difficult to get a few bees to spawn in your existing worlds. I decided to test today in my old world and this issue became apparent. I had to travel pretty far - my base of operations is at x -75, z 150 roughly, and I traveled to x 300, z 800 before I found any bees (but when I got there, I captured around 15 in the area). I suppose that's not too far, but I'm wondering if this is going to be a concern for anyone.

I personally don't have a problem with how this worked out - sort of a happy accident. It's another reason to traverse the landscape and explore rather than staying safe in your base. And the good news is, once you've found a few, you won't have to go out searching again.

I actually had quite the adventure looking for mine. At some point, I crafted a bed and started sleeping through the nights. But before that I was fighting through hordes of creepers (easy enough to kill as they were), and making my way through a quite annoying jungle. I couldn't seem to find an exit, so I started marking my path and discovered I was walking in circles! After a few nights of walking around aimlessly, I happened across a swamp, and so I walked along the edge of the jungle until I finally discovered some honey bees. They had already produced a few hives, so I collected the honeycombs and captured the bees... but that's when I realized I had gone so far that I didn't know my way back. I should have brought my map, and it didn't occur to me for a good hour of walking around trying to spot my towers that I could just use F3. At this point I was all the way out at about x 500, z 1400, on top of a mountain.

With an inventory full of crap I'd collected on my way, I began my long trek home to construct my apiary. The End. :)
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Re: Working on a BTW addon

Post by Elevatator »

You always have to go as far as your world is generated (because they will just spawn in new generated parts). For people who searched for Jungles or Mushroom Islands it will be a hell to go again for an journey for some bees. However. I think it will be worth it. :)
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