Vanilla Minecraft News Discussion

[Katalliaan]

Elevator: 2723252156358377690 at -277,-208, according to the talk page on the subject on the MC wiki.

Also, more Twitter goodness:

http://i.imgur.com/1nWp1.png : 3

[destineternel]

Well SSP still exhibits SMP style lag glitches (yea yea, I know it's still a snapshot). Got killed by a zombie due to the fact I couldn't hit it. Also seems I can magically walk through mobs/animals. Honestly they should be focusing on the server/client/mod api stuff instead of adding features like ender chests.

Mind you adding new features takes peoples eyes away from the mod api and such. Well played Mojang..well played.

[Elevatator]

Well, thats a fair deal:

Spoiler

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[FlowerChild]

Just woke up a short while ago. Just read through the change-log on the MC wiki. Just had a whole series of face-palms even greater than what my pessimism told me I'd be experiencing.

So yeah, this update is actually far worse than I was dreading.

For example: "hey, multi-block mechanisms are so passe, let's just jam everything into one and have a Dispenser spit out water!".

It's funny that particular functionality was something I rejected for the BD long long ago because I knew it would have that effect. Less thinking, more clicking. That's what the update is about.

And hey: "Let's add more ores with no real intended use for them!". I really thought that was the domain of poorly thought out mods. Why are they ores? Why is that even necessary?

Will reserve further comment until later, when I am more fully awake. But yeah, a big "pffffft" to this.

[Eriottosan]

I have never been more disappointed by an update. For anything. Ever.

The only thing that I liked the sound of was "sandstone stairs" and "pyramids", but the pyramids look like some sort of abomination, and the loot yield is far too high.

Not to mention this adds EnderChest and EmeraldOre to the ever-diminishing, still-no-recent-news-on-4096 (as I call it, the mythical number) block IDs.

I can only imagine how many facepalms you had when reading it, FC.

I feel that I will not be updating to 1.3 until BTW is updated to it, not even on a separate .jar. It's just, not worth it.

Makes me all the more appreciative of you and your work, FC. Thank you.

[Katalliaan]

In all honesty, the only thing that 1.3 brings that even vaguely interests me is the fact that they're finally merging the codebases. Of course, this does have the unfortunate side-effect of simple but not well thought-out "features", as they have to add something to keep the people that don't understand that a major refactoring of code is both important and time-consuming.

[Eriottosan]

In all honesty, the only thing that 1.3 brings that even vaguely interests me is the fact that they're finally merging the codebases. Of course, this does have the unfortunate side-effect of simple but not well thought-out "features", as they have to add something to keep the people that don't understand that a major refactoring of code is both important and time-consuming.

I agree, but there is a difference between adding something to keep people who don't understand that a rewrite of code takes time happy, and adding game debasing content.

[FlowerChild]

Yeah, I think the end result of this will be me returning to work on the "Anniversary Update" with a renewed passion.

Frankly, I'm even half-tempted to turn the mod into a TC at this point, but of course won't do that because I don't want to trash people's worlds.

Anyways, the sooner I distance myself from these kind of changes, the happier I will be. There's no point in me repeatedly banging my head against this wall.

To address a couple of points brought up here:

Yeah, not allowing the Hopper to deposit into Ender Chests was my first thought as well. I think that's a given in addition to any other changes I may need to make to compensate.

When was the last time any new functionality introduced in a pre-release was tweaked any further? The only instances I remember of that happening were when there were just plain old bugs that resulted like ice being able to create water-flow in the Nether. I really don't see something like trading receiving any further balance, and from what I read of the system on the MC wiki, it sounds like our fears were founded of EE making its way into vanilla, as you have things like some villagers being willing to give you emeralds for wheat, and others being willing to give you diamonds for emeralds.

Heck, there is even one villager type that will give you emeralds for rotten flesh, so we're talking automation that is fully possible with just vanilla and no mods installed.

Yeah, I despair. We just seem to be going into full-out bad-mod territory here. Like how does the new dispenser functionality even vaguely fit with the internal logic of how that thing works? Last update was bad enough with placing boats and minecarts with one, now we're able to *swallow* water source blocks too? Ok, so I guess it's some kind of input device now too. That's one versatile bow we got going there. I don't even have a vague explanation for what the block is actually supposed to be doing anymore.

As for Ender Chests, I really don't get why Ender Stone isn't in the recipe. One could argue that its questionable availability in SMP might be the concern, but at the same time, they've basically been designed to be useless in SMP, so that can't be it. Guess it was decided to just be "too hard".

[Sarudak]

Yeah, I despair. We just seem to be going into full-out bad-mod territory here. Like how does the new dispenser functionality even vaguely fit with the internal logic of how that thing works? Last update was bad enough with placing boats and minecarts with one, now we're able to *swallow* water source blocks too? Ok, so I guess it's some kind of input device now too. That's one versatile bow we got going there. I don't even have a vague explanation for what the block is actually supposed to be doing anymore.

You know it's a kind of dispensywensy grabbywabby kind of bow thing... Like it shoots the bucket out of the bow and the bucket hits the water sucks it up and then is (???? bounces back) and then it sucks the bucket back in of course! I guess...

[Sarudak]

As for Ender Chests, I really don't get why Ender Stone isn't in the recipe. One could argue that its questionable availability in SMP might be the concern, but at the same time, they've basically been designed to be useless in SMP, so that can't be it. Guess it was decided to just be "too hard".

Yeah that would at least make it an interesting reward for 'beating' the game.

[Elevatator]

Better than wolves: For people who can think
Better than wolves, better than the one who thought of the new shit.


4096... I first read 40%
And thats the progress it will be for a long time.

[embirrim]

Yeah, not allowing the Hopper to deposit into Ender Chests was my first thought as well. I think that's a given in addition to any other changes I may need to make to compensate.

One question. Is this to prevent item transportation over long distances, over dimensions, or both? I can understand not wanting players to have farms in the middle of nowhere and magically transporting items, but chests across dimensions is something I've actually always wanted, it brings quite a lot of automation potential...

[Elevatator]

One question. Is this to prevent item transportation over long distances, over dimensions, or both? I can understand not wanting players to have farms in the middle of nowhere and magically transporting items, but chests across dimensions is something I've actually always wanted, it brings quite a lot of automation potential...

Over long distances, I would say. The time stands in the other dimensions still.
It´s to prevent overpowered small farms.

[morvelaira]

Yeah, I think the end result of this will be me returning to work on the "Anniversary Update" with a renewed passion.

Frankly, I'm even half-tempted to turn the mod into a TC at this point, but of course won't do that because I don't want to trash people's worlds.

Anyways, the sooner I distance myself from these kind of changes, the happier I will be. There's no point in me repeatedly banging my head against this wall.

Well, that is certainly encouraging from my vantage point, but what is a TC?

Eitherway, I have to admit this "EE in Minecraft" mentality actually excites a perverse part of me. Since Feed the Beast is an impossible type of map to make without EE, perhaps this could be the thing that brings the genre to BTW/BTB. Odd goal of mine, but I want it. >.>

[Elevatator]

TC= Total Conversation

[FlowerChild]

Honestly, I have no firm problems in mind with the Ender Chests...yet.

However, the thing screams "potential exploits" at me when combined with automation. It's not something I would have personally built into the game, so my first instinct to to distance mod functionality from it to prevent an endless cycle of tweaks I'll likely have to make as people discover new ways to abuse it.

Having the Hopper just not deposit into it now will cut that short. If eventually I decide it is safe, I can easily reverse that decision later without breaking anyone's builds. If I just let it go however, and feel I need to disable it later, that will likely not be true.

So yeah, my instinct is to play it safe with this one.

[FlowerChild]

TC= Total Conversation

Yeah. It would basically mean that I'd rewrite any portions of the game that I don't like. You'd either be playing vanilla OR you'd be playing BTW. It wouldn't be an add-on anymore if I went that route, but kind of a separate game.

Again though, it's not something I'd actually do. Just a tempting thought that's been occurring to me more and more in moments of frustration.

[Sarudak]

My secret hope is that the changes to vanilla will finally become so unbearable that FC will have to simply create his own game. And then I will be able to play that game for endless hours without ever tiring of it.

[morvelaira]

I think Conversion was meant instead of Conversation.

But yeah. Just means you need to get cracking on your own games, I suppose. *once again offers QA and project management experience*

[MoRmEnGiL]

Uhhm, have you ever played EE dear Morv? There is absolutely no way you can play that mod and have fun, unless you enjoy playing in creative mode. Playing, not testing, messing around, or doing challenge maps.

Seriously, almost everyone (I believe I'm talking for the majority of us here) is enjoying building automated farms a lot, and coming up with their own designs, improving existing, and figuring how stuff works.

Well guess what, with this system all you need is a village and a massive pumpkin farm. And you have everything you could ever need. No need for any other farm, except of course dung/hemp, but every single vanilla item is practically in infinite supply for you.

[Battlecat]

To be honest Flowerchild, if the villager trading remains like this when 1.3 comes out, I think it would not be unreasonable to modify it when BTW is active. It doesn't appear that changing it would directly impact any other vanilla gameplay. But that's just my personal opinion, I'm sure you'll do what's best for the mod.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Actually a little config file option to turn it off would maybe be the simple solution..

EDIT: because straight up disabling it probably goes against the same thinking that made HCB an option.

[FlowerChild]

I think Conversion was meant instead of Conversation.

Indeed :)

I tend to kinda "speed read" when I'm frustrated and often don't notice stuff like that.

But yeah. Just means you need to get cracking on your own games, I suppose. *once again offers QA and project management experience*

Yeah, it's certainly pushing me that way to be sure. Still thinking on it.

[Sarudak]

*Gets behind and pushes harder*

[MoRmEnGiL]

That.. comes off wrong :P