(SPOILER) hardcore explosives (SPOILER)

[Nerdasaurus_Rex]

What about changes to dynamite and mining charges? Anyone find something out about these?

[Mason11987]

What about changes to dynamite and mining charges? Anyone find something out about these?

Two posts above you:

...Also worth noting is that the recipe for Dynamite will also be undergoing a revamp very shortly. As it stood, as of last night I had already invested several days work into this release and there was already a ton of new content I wanted to get out to people. I was beginning to wind up on a slippery slope of adding "just one more thing" before releasing, so I finally decided to stop myself when I felt everything tied together well as is, before moving on to additional items....

[Nerdasaurus_Rex]

Ah, thanks. Can't wait to see what comes out of it!

[muggsbud]

when i figured out how to make fuses last night, i was too tired to realy test anything about them. I almost thought we would be able to lay them down like redstone and light explosives like something out of an old cartoon, but apparently that isn't in. :(

[Graphite]

when i figured out how to make fuses last night, i was too tired to realy test anything about them. I almost thought we would be able to lay them down like redstone and light explosives like something out of an old cartoon, but apparently that isn't in. :(

I see I wasn't the only one that tried that. Not sure what it'd add that redstone can't do though.

[FlowerChild]

I see I wasn't the only one that tried that. Not sure what it'd add that redstone can't do though.

Yeah...that's the thing. It would just take up a blockID, and require a bunch of work to implement, without providing any actual benefit.

[DaveYanakov]

I was unable to scrape up enough materials for truly extensive testing but after detonating thirty barrels in various conditions they appear to have the exact same explosive power as vanilla tnt.

[FlowerChild]

That's good because they are just reskinned TNT and even use the same blockID ;)

I didn't want to fuck up people's cannon builds and such by altering the physics on TNT. My main objective was changing where explosives reside in the tech-tree.

[Sarudak]

Doors that mean there's no possibility of powder kegs becoming more powerful? :P

[FlowerChild]

Doors that mean there's no possibility of powder kegs becoming more powerful? :P

Well...no. There's certainly potential for more powerful explosives down the road though. I think the strength of vanilla TNT is at about the limit of credibility for something like a powder keg.

[Sarudak]

Oh ok. That's cool. It just seems so much less cost effective than the mining charges now since the cost and difficulty of acquiring has been increased and it has all the standard disadvantages of TNT (irregular explosion, large block loss). But maybe I wouldn't find the cost so much of an issue if I actually had a mob farm... :P

[FlowerChild]

Oh ok. That's cool. It just seems so much less cost effective than the mining charges now since the cost and difficulty of acquiring has been increased and it has all the standard disadvantages of TNT (irregular explosion, large block loss). But maybe I wouldn't find the cost so much of an issue if I actually had a mob farm... :P

Well, as I said above, dynamite will be undergoing some changes as well.

Plus, Kegs are the more weaponized variety of explosive, just like TNT used to be. Mining charges really don't work well as a weapon/booby trap.

[CycloneSP]

I just realized that with the increased difficulty in obtaining gunpowder, it has also affected splash potions. Making them both harder to obtain and less useful as a weapon to combat those pesky players with better armor than you.

So, my question is; was this intended? Or just a 'pleasant' side effect?

[FlowerChild]

I just realized that with the increased difficulty in obtaining gunpowder, it has also affected splash potions. Making them both harder to obtain and less useful as a weapon to combat those pesky players with better armor than you.

So, my question is; was this intended? Or just a 'pleasant' side effect?

Intended. Weaponized potions suck, especially since you can chuck them as fast as you click.

[Bluephoenix49]

Was Ghasts still dropping gunpowder intended so you could still obtain small amounts with some effort?

[darahalian]

Yeah, as mentioned being able to process Endstone in a Crucible is a bug, and represents and oversight on my part. That will be corrected in the next release, so it's worth noting that if you're setting up any kind of automatic production line, you'll want to base it around a Kiln instead.

There was actually a whole lot of different stuff that went into this release, and I tested out a variety of production methods before settling on this one, so something was bound to slip through the cracks somewhere :)

I'm kind of curious... What made you finally settle on the kiln for processing Endstone? Really the only reason I'm asking is because imo, it makes more sense to have the super hot water of a stoked cauldron kind of "wash" the white cobble from the brimstone coating it, than to have the brimstone somehow separated from the white cobble in a dry kiln. (Both these methods currently work; the crucible doesn't) If it's to require the use of an auto kiln instead of plopping it in a stoked cauldron, that's fine, but ignoring ease of production as a factor, I personally think processing it in a stoked cauldron makes more intuitive sense.

Sorry if this comes off sounding like a suggestion, but I was mostly just curious what factored into your decision to use the kiln.

[FlowerChild]

Both because the Kiln is a rather underutilized and interesting processing method (the Stewing Pot on the other hand is used for a ton of stuff), and because it parallels one ancient method:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur

Sulfur may be found by itself and historically was usually obtained in this way, while pyrite has been a source of sulfur via sulfuric acid.[17] In volcanic regions in Sicily, in ancient times, it was found on the surface of the Earth, and the "Sicilian process" was used: sulfur deposits were piled and stacked in brick kilns built on sloping hillsides, with airspaces between them. Then, some sulfur was pulverized, spread over the stacked ore and ignited, causing the free sulfur to melt down the hills.

[Psion]

Probably because kilns are generally lower in tempature, around 115-400 C, and sulphur (brimstone) melts at 115C. On the other hand, crucibles are very VERY hot. hot enough so that said brimstone would be evaporating and reacting with oxygen to make suphur dioxide, an unpleasant and toxic gas.

Not to mention that water itself is a reactant, and something that reacts with quite a few substances. I'm not sure on what would happen if you burned sulphur in really hot water, but it would likely make something along the lines of sulfuric acid, H2SO4.

[darahalian]

Both because the Kiln is a rather underutilized and interesting processing method (the Stewing Pot on the other hand is used for a ton of stuff), and because it parallels one ancient method:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur

Sulfur may be found by itself and historically was usually obtained in this way, while pyrite has been a source of sulfur via sulfuric acid.[17] In volcanic regions in Sicily, in ancient times, it was found on the surface of the Earth, and the "Sicilian process" was used: sulfur deposits were piled and stacked in brick kilns built on sloping hillsides, with airspaces between them. Then, some sulfur was pulverized, spread over the stacked ore and ignited, causing the free sulfur to melt down the hills.

Cool. That makes sense. And yeah, the kiln really could do with a little more use.

[Cuchonchuir]

Probably because kilns are generally lower in tempature, around 115-400 C, and sulphur (brimstone) melts at 115C.

I agree that crucibles are hotter than kilns, but no kiln I know is that low in temperature. 1000 C is considered a "low" fire. Even the lowest gold firing temps are like 600 C. The highest kilns usually go is about 1300 C, which is lower than the 1650 C or so needed for making steel, but still, not that far off.

I guess the oldest style kilns like the kind that inspired FC were a lot lower in temperature, but modern ones get quite a bit hotter. I remember I had some huge ones and I liked to put random non-ceramic things in just to burn them to dust, but that's neither here nor there . . .

More on-topic, I think FC's idea of using the Kiln for this is great, since I know my kiln is often sitting empty while my crucible gets a lot of work passing through it. I think making an automatic kiln was one of the most fun automation projects I had, especially when I rigged an automatic wheel up to it. Feels good to give the kiln more use. :D

And just having to actually make the gunpowder is something I really like. It's such a simple and classic recipe!

[Psion]

Yeah, i don't think steve has invented the electric kiln yet. :P If i recall correctly, such hot temperatures drive out more of the water in the clay, turning it into porcelain with a sufficient temperature, which is far hardier to the elements than plain old terra cotta. (or mexican pottery... now that stuff practically melts in the rain after a while. XD )

Porcelain requires temperatures of over 1200C though, which is probably something steve hasn't managed to pull off yet with his simple, open to the air brick kiln, heh.

[DaveYanakov]

One thing that this change has done is make an enderman farm in the end very important. Even with just four players working to build in a single area, we're already looking at the quarry in the End and thinking that it's becoming a serious issue to the integrity of the island. We are working on building a trap to supplement the stone as a priority higher than the actual overworld mob trap.

Yeah, i don't think steve has invented the electric kiln yet. :P If i recall correctly, such hot temperatures drive out more of the water in the clay, turning it into porcelain with a sufficient temperature, which is far hardier to the elements than plain old terra cotta. (or mexican pottery... now that stuff practically melts in the rain after a while. XD )

Porcelain requires temperatures of over 1200C though, which is probably something steve hasn't managed to pull off yet with his simple, open to the air brick kiln, heh.

That isn't how chemistry works, man. You don't produce steel by heating iron ore to 5000 degrees instead of 3000. Porcelain is a result of a different mineral composition in the clay, the higher temperatures correlate to the fact that you're fusing silicates within the piece. As for achieving those temperatures, people have been going higher with nothing more than charcoal and muscle powered bellows for centuries before electricity was harnessed. Steve is already at a higher tech level than is needed for this step.

[Foxy Boxes]

One thing that this change has done is make an enderman farm in the end very important. Even with just four players working to build in a single area, we're already looking at the quarry in the End and thinking that it's becoming a serious issue to the integrity of the island. We are working on building a trap to supplement the stone as a priority higher than the actual overworld mob trap.

Spoiler

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You do realise the Endermen rebuild the End right?

[FlowerChild]

You do realise the Endermen rebuild the End right?

You do realize you have to be in the end in order for that to happen, and that the primary reason people are probably going to the end right now is to harvest endstone, right?

[Charzy]

Out if interest, was there any particular reason why endstone was made the source of sulfur, or was it just a convenient material with little use before then?