FlowerChild's Dev Diary (week of September 24th)

[SterlingRed]

Yup, it will. It'll make getting back to a ridiculously far-out base rather difficult, as will some other changes I'm planning.

Excellent!

[FlowerChild]

All right...now we get to the good stuff: Hardcore Mobs.

Yesterday's release largely came down to me realizing that base-defense was about to get WAAAAAY more important, and that players needed a method to empirically determine if their base is secure. So, I decided to move ahead with an idea I've been toying around with for awhile now before moving onto the juicy bits ;)

Now, I start to dive into some very exciting territory with regards to mob-behavior.

HOWEVER, first, I'm realizing I need to take care of beds. Frankly, skipping the night or resetting your spawn just does not fit in with maintaining any sense of fear or tension within the game, which is about to become a lot more important with Hardcore Mobs. It sucks. It's devalued rail networks, it's spread out anarchy play to a ridiculous extent (as people have commented on above), it's removed a lot of the impact from dying (although this is something different from Hardcore Spawn...which I'll address separately), and frankly, having played MC for a long time before beds were a part of it, it was just a better experience overall. They're a bad feature. Period.

Playing more SMP as of late has only reminded me more of this, since you can't reliably skip the night on a server with other people logged in. Yes, there's the initial "man...I wish I could just skip the night", but inevitably, once you get over that it leads to more diverse and interesting gameplay as you go back to organizing your activities into daytime and nighttime, and become more aware of bolstering your defenses for lasting through the night.

And yes, before someone asks, I already have another use planned for beds in the future, so they won't become a strictly decorative block. It may take me a few releases to get to that, but they will be a valuable part of play later in the tech-tree. In some ways, even more so than they are now.

So, that's my plan for today: kill beds :)

EDIT: Oh, and while I'm at it: kill F3.

[LaserCooled]

And yes, before someone asks, I already have another use planned for beds in the future

Lol, the first thing that popped into my head when I read this was Hardcore Villagers.

[Sarudak]

EDIT: Oh, and while I'm at it: kill F3.

:O

You monster! Beds are one thing but without F3 how will I ever find my way around????

[BinoAl]

EDIT: Oh, and while I'm at it: kill F3.

*cheers*
Finding things by their coordinates just felt wrong :)

[Educated_Fool]

Funny you're adressing the respawning problems now, while I was playing yesterday I died and the only thing I thought was, "I just lost a couple of levels... oh well". So yeah, I'll definitely enjoy some extra challenge =)

EDIT: Oh, and while I'm at it: kill F3.

This. I've caught myself so often peeking at F3 to check lightlevels or to see at what height I was, it just isn't funny anymore.
That and being able to slam all that data on your screen immediately kills all suspension of disbelief :/

[Sarudak]

Finding things by their coordinates just felt wrong :)

I totally agree with you. The issue I have is that you have this massive infinite world, a broken map system, and a compass that always points to spawn. None of these things will help you if you go out several km start a new base and later wander off a bit too far and get lost. There's no good way to navigate in minecraft currently. I'm all for killing F3 if we get some kind of replacement tools for navigation... :P

EDIT: Sorry flower I just realized I was forgetting the thread rules about criticizing unreleased features. My apologies.

[urka]

Oh, and while I'm at it: kill F3.

How will we figure out light levels. :O

[Sarudak]

How will we figure out light levels. :O

The last release just added an item you may want to try out...

[FlowerChild]

I totally agree with you. The issue I have is that you have this massive infinite world, a broken map system, and a compass that always points to spawn. None of these things will help you if you go out several km start a new base and later wander off a bit too far and get lost. There's no good way to navigate in minecraft currently. I'm all for killing F3 if we get some kind of replacement tools for navigation... :P

Well: don't go out several km's from your spawn, at least not without planning ahead by building a rail-network, placing way-markers, travelling there via the nether, or what have you.

Which brings me to another point that beds and F3 have killed: the sense of fear and accomplishment in building a base in remote regions, and the fear of getting lost.

What you're saying is actually a non-issue man, that players can adapt to as easily as leaving a trail of bread-crumbs. It replaces meta-game bullshit with player ingenuity and forethought. I used to make a habit of placing directional way-markers during my travels, which was a cool aspect of gameplay that has since gone the way of the dodo-bird.

Will I look at additional navigation tools to add to the mod? Sure. However, there's not much point doing that when every player is wandering around with a GPS.

[BinoAl]

Is speculation allowed in the thread, because I think I may have figured out (at least partly) what hardcore spawning entails :)

[Graphite]

And yes, before someone asks, I already have another use planned for beds in the future, ...

Wait?! You mean we finally get women in the game! :D

[Sarudak]

Ok I feel that. Especially the sense of fear and accomplishment. I just know that I have a tendency to get lost a lot especially when I go caving or whatnot. Even when I'm only a hundred or so blocks from my base if my base isn't spawn then I have no reliable way of locating it again. As I said I'm all for removing F3 and I'm sure you'll give us in game tools to compensate like you did with the last release. And again my apologies on criticizing unreleased features.

[CycloneSP]

k-kill F3?!?

B-but but but! In minecraft, my sense of direction is worse than this guy!

Spoiler

Show

Sigh, but I'll concede. you have been right about everything else, why doubt you on this part as well?



I will ask you this, what exactly will this entail for those of us that have already made bases 25km from spawn? Will we now have to gingerly sneak around our bases for fear of accidentally killing ourselves and never ever getting back to our bases again?

also will hardcore death/spawn differentiate between different kinds of deaths? (ie environment versus player?)

[Mason11987]

Yesterday I was walking around with a full inventory and like 50 levels, and I went out and found a stronghold. After finding it I came back up to the surface and freaked out for a second because I had no idea where my base was. I thought I was brilliant by trying to backtrace how I had gotten there by looking at lilypads (FLOATING!) I had broken. Then I went "doh! I can just head for 0,0" and I went straight home.

The idea that this kind planning and back tracking would be my only option is both unnerving and exciting. Perfect!

[Kazuya Mishima]

Does anybody use F3 for building or measuring exact dimensions of rooms ? This is the only thing i found it useful as i wasn't really interested in my global coordinates ever but the "relative coordinates" between one wall and another wall or one floor and a ceiling.

I do think losing F3 is good overall as it gives steve too much omnipotence and now with ender eye googles light levels are revealed.

[FlowerChild]

I will ask you this, what exactly will this entail for those of us that have already made bases 25km from spawn? Will we now have to gingerly sneak around our bases for fear of accidentally killing ourselves and never ever getting back to our bases again?

Yes, indeed it does. It means you should start *building* (In MC no less! OMG! :) ). Build a compass, locate your spawn, and make sure that everything you want access to is linked in some way to it, through markers, through rails, through roads, through the nether, or through a method of your own creation. If you don't want to be unable to find your base, then *you* as a player should ensure that you can find it.

Ok I feel that. Especially the sense of fear and accomplishment. I just know that I have a tendency to get lost a lot especially when I go caving or whatnot. Even when I'm only a hundred or so blocks from my base if my base isn't spawn then I have no reliable way of locating it again. As I said I'm all for removing F3 and I'm sure you'll give us in game tools to compensate like you did with the last release. And again my apologies on criticizing unreleased features.

No worries man. Frankly, I didn't even notice as it was on the level of intelligent debate :)

Also, with regards to the compass being "broken", it's actually incredibly useful. True north can already be determined by the direction of the sun and moon, so if the compass pointed that way, it would largely be useless. One of my old habits, which I've since had fall by the way-side due to beds and F3 was that I was always paying attention to where the sun was, both because I was afraid of getting stuck out in the wilderness after dark, and to maintain my own sense of direction. Now, I'm not even aware of which direction north is *in my main base* (which I've now spent hundreds of hours in), which frankly: is pretty fucking sad.

Like I said above, all the tools you need for navigation are actually already in the game. They've just largely fallen into disuse due to the whole GPS thing. It may take awhile, but you will definitely adapt, much as I did when I first started playing MC, and when you do get lost, it will lead to new adventures, new bases, and new gameplay. I've been lost in MC before, and it's both fucking terrifying, and fucking fun. I want to restore that sensation to the game.

The way-marker thing I find particularly tragic actually. One of the things I found super-cool about MC was that in it being a game where the player could alter his environment, it opened up possibilities like that for real-world navigation techniques. So, when beds and F3 (actually, I think F3 was always there with co-ordinates, I just didn't know about it initially) came along and removed the need for that, it was actually acting counter to the strengths of the game, as MC is one of the few games in which way-markers are actually viable.

[FlowerChild]

Does anybody use F3 for building or measuring exact dimensions of rooms ? This is the only thing i found it useful as i wasn't really interested in my global coordinates ever but the "relative coordinates" between one wall and another wall or one floor and a ceiling.

Actually, there was an idea proposed a long time ago, that I really liked and said I would implement.

It involves just placing stakes in the ground and using string to mark straight-lines and measure distance, much like I believe was used in historical construction. I've been planning on doing it ever since, but couldn't justify the blockID usage when the player could just use F3.

That's about to change now, at which point this feature will become much more useful, and be bumped way up in my priorities.

F3 wasn't just detrimental to suspension of disbelief. It was eliminating the need for a whole bunch of cool existing aspects of gameplay, and also acting to discourage development of what could be some very cool features that were rendered useless by the GPS.

[Kazuya Mishima]

Actually, there was an idea proposed a long time ago, that I really liked and said I would implement.

It involves just placing stakes in the ground and using string to mark straight-lines and measure distance, much like I believe was used in historical construction. I've been planning on doing it ever since, but couldn't justify the blockID usage when the player could just use F3.

Cool. I always felt vMC building was weak, this adds much to the strategy of building and pre-planning, also it will increase the value of string.

I cannot wait it use it. There is zero reason to mourn the loss of F3 now.

[Battlecat]

The removal of F3 is simultaneously terrifying and exciting. You are absolutely right about it being a crutch that is overused. Honestly, I try not to use it but it's a hard habit to break. I imagine it would be a problem for anarchy, much like the loading glitches. F3 really should have been removed or restricted when the game went full release since it's a debugging tool.

The only thing I'll really truly miss is using F3 coordinates to relocate glitchy nether portals so they connect where I want them to be rather than to the nearest available portal. But I can work around that I'm sure. Or I suppose you might have a solution in mind for that glitch as well. :-)

[Mason11987]

The removal of F3 is simultaneously terrifying and exciting. You are absolutely right about it being a crutch that is overused. Honestly, I try not to use it but it's a hard habit to break. I imagine it would be a problem for anarchy, much like the loading glitches. F3 really should have been removed or restricted when the game went full release since it's a debugging tool.

The only thing I'll really truly miss is using F3 coordinates to relocate glitchy nether portals so they connect where I want them to be rather than to the nearest available portal. But I can work around that I'm sure. Or I suppose you might have a solution in mind for that glitch as well. :-)

I think this could be GREAT for anarchy. Imagine setting up markers in the wild that are indistinguishable from other players as natural terrain but you can see it and know it's a marker to get back to your base. I'm already thinking about how that might work.

I do agree that F3 is really really useful for dealing with portals not behaving how you'd expect, and I suspect FC being a heavy user of the nether might have ideas around that.

[FlowerChild]

F3 really should have been removed or restricted when the game went full release since it's a debugging tool.

This. It blows my fucking mind that a debug tool like this is still present in a supposedly "released" game, especially when it nullifies the usefulness of the game's own features, like the compass and map.

It's incredibly unprofessional, which is one of the reasons why I've decided to do something about it. It's extremely difficult for a player, even one as opposed to cheating as me, to play legit when you know you have the "easy button" sitting right there at all times. It's kinda like having TMI installed: if it's always there, and you know it, you will most likely use it at some point. Sometimes, you do it without even thinking about it, or the detrimental impact it's having on your game experience.

I know that I do it all the time myself, and I absolutely hate that.

Hehe...I just amused myself with the realization that I can now say to people that have bugged me to improve maps in the past: "here you go...I removed F3" ;)

[Sarudak]

Hehe...I just amused myself with the realization that I can now say to people that have bugged me to improve maps in the past: "here you go...I removed F3" ;)

That actually brings up an interesting point. When you mentioned maps I thought to myself "Yeah now that F3 is gone I'll just need to craft maps around the places I want to be able to find and once I get nearby the magical map GPS will lead me home." Do you think this will make maps too good? Or put them in the finally worth using category?

OTOH there would be a serious risk of carrying such a map around in anarchy... ;)

[magikeh]

It's extremely difficult for a player, even one as opposed to cheating as me, to play legit when you know you have the "easy button" sitting right there at all times. It's kinda like having TMI installed: if it's always there, and you know it, you will most likely use it at some point. Sometimes, you do it without even thinking about it, or the detrimental impact it's having on your game experience.

This is just what i feel, i recently discovered that i could cheat my game to creative using the new open to lan thing. All i needed to do was pause, open to lan, enable cheats/creative and then get back to playing. To revert to the survival all i needed to do was to exit to menu and then re-log the SSP world. My game has had a serous hit as i now feel the security that if anything goes really really really wrong i can pause game and save myself... >.>

[Kazuya Mishima]

The only thing I'll really truly miss is using F3 coordinates to relocate glitchy nether portals so they connect where I want them to be rather than to the nearest available portal. But I can work around that I'm sure. Or I suppose you might have a solution in mind for that glitch as well. :-)

This stopped me for a second but then it occurred to me that you may be able to work around this with trial and error. Your first gate is likely going to be totally unaligned, most of mine are. Your objective for gate alignment would probably consistent of independently finding the true X or the true Z by focusing on one Cartesian plane and building successive gates at a minimum of 8 blocks. As you test them out eventually you will reach a point , as you go further south or further east with your gates, the newer gates do not serve as an exit point from the nether to the overworld indicating the previous gate you built(in the overworld) in the sequence is better aligned.

Once you find the exit point that aligns to the gate on the Z coordinate you then do the X coordinate, y seemed always irrelevant. Eventually you will arrive at the coordinated X and Z and any additional gates you make to other points in the nether can use your nether 1st nether gate as a reference point assuming they are somewhat close and you can use the x 8 rule and measurement tape.