Coming from Technic

[Xekrom337]

...item transport...

Water. That is all. (Oh, and a billion other things.)

And welcome to the forums!

[Herr Derp]

It feels less like a mod, and more like how the game should be.
Kudos FC.

DING DING DING. I think every player who tries the mod says the same thing about the time they start automating their first hemp farm. Also, welcome to you as well. Hugs all around! Wonderful, slimy, dung filled anus hugs! It grows on you.

[FlowerChild]

The only things I miss deal with crafting automation and item transport, which I'm sure will get implemented soon in a completely original and seamless way.

They're so seamless, you didn't even notice they're already in the mod ;)

[MoRmEnGiL]

Haha, the above statement is so true :]

[Blazara]

The only things I miss deal with crafting automation and item transport, which I'm sure will get implemented soon in a completely original and seamless way.

They're so seamless, you didn't even notice they're already in the mod ;)

Better Than Wolves: So seamless, you don't know what you've got into... ;)

[DocHussey]

Better Than Wolves: So seamless, you don't know what you've got into... ;)

Insert horrid gimpsuit joke in 3...2...1...

[Rianaru]

Better Than Wolves: So seamless, you don't know what you've got into... ;)

Insert horrid gimpsuit joke in 3...2...1...

Screw that...

[heyz]

The only things I miss deal with crafting automation and item transport, which I'm sure will get implemented soon in a completely original and seamless way.

They're so seamless, you didn't even notice they're already in the mod ;)

WHAAAAAAA????????

pouring over wiki....

Oh you sneaky bastard! well played sir, well played.

[duartemad]

Dang it,I was editing my signature and I ended up pasting it here.

[Six]

I'm glad you were able to try out the mod and find out how enjoyable it is. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of blind animosity some other communities seems to have for BTW, which I can only assume is kept up by some sort of self sustaining whirlwind of hate. It's nice to see someone able to actually step away from that, play the mod and decide if they like it. In terms of a lasting gameplay experience, BTW is the best for me.

Welcome to the forums, and try not to get banned.

[PatriotBob]

I'm glad you were able to try out the mod and find out how enjoyable it is. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of blind animosity some other communities seems to have for BTW, which I can only assume is kept up by some sort of self sustaining whirlwind of hate. It's nice to see someone able to actually step away from that, play the mod and decide if they like it. In terms of a lasting gameplay experience, BTW is the best for me.

Welcome to the forums, and try not to get banned.

I WILL BE BANNED IF I PLEASE!

Which I don't. :)

The thing that really bothers me about the "whirlwind of hate" going around is the fragmentation in the Minecraft community. With Mojang hiring on the Bukkit crew there was a bit of hope that we might get a not-terrible API the really creative mods like BTW would be able to leverage w/o limiting themselves. But with everyone more than happy to stab each other in the face, rather than try to agree on what the future of Minecraft mods really needs, the new upcoming API is going to fall short.

And that is really bad, because it means that the state of mods isn't going to really improve... we'll just have another new API to choose from.

[FlowerChild]

It's not as bad as all that man. If you've been exposed to the Technic/SA crowd for very long, they're notorious for doom and gloom prophecies of utter disaster with regards to just about everything.

Everything is the end of Minecraft...everything is the end of modding...everything is particularly the end of BTW. Yada yada yada. Their whole shtick really is massively comical once you realize what it really is and how their prophecies never actually come to pass.

My biggest hope for the API is that it will actually be the end of Technic ;)

[Sarudak]

My biggest hope for the API is that it will actually be the end of Technic ;)

Now you're swinging too far into fantastical optimism... :P

[PatriotBob]

It's not as bad as all that man. If you've been exposed to the Technic/SA crowd for very long, they're notorious for doom and gloom prophecies of utter disaster with regards to just about everything.

Everything is the end of Minecraft...everything is the end of modding...everything is particularly the end of BTW. Yada yada yada. Their whole shtick really is massively comical once you realize what it really is and how their prophecies never actually come to pass.

My biggest hope for the API is that it will actually be the end of Technic ;)

I'm not too worried about the end of anything. Just more that something that could have been great ends up just lackluster.

The main thing I'm hoping to see the API cover would be allowing players to connect to a server and patch seamlessly on connection. This way you not forced to have a particularly configured client. You just play the game how you want.

I program for a living so it drives me absolutely insane when people get excited over a feature they get, that could have been 100 times better if implemented correctly, used forethought, planning, etc... STOP CELEBRATING MEDIOCRITY YOU FOOLS!

But funny you should mention it, it would kinda kill the need for launchers, which is really what makes Technic as popular as it is...

[FlowerChild]

The main thing I'm hoping to see the API cover would be allowing players to connect to a server and patch seamlessly on connection. This way you not forced to have a particularly configured client. You just play the game how you want.

Yeah, I'm not particularly keen on that aspect of the mod API, nor will BTW be a part of it if that system winds up getting developed.

The likelihood of any API being full featured enough to cover the kind of gameplay changes I make and want to continue making is just about nil. That's not Mojang's fault, it's just the nature of the mod I am working on, and of my own personal priorities in developing it. To me, design flexibility is of far more importance than compatibility.

So yeah, don't hold out any hope of BTW ever being compatible with the majority of other mods out there. Also, I don't subscribe to there being a "proper" or "correct" way to do things, as I once again think that all comes down to your own goals as a developer, and often those kind of pie in the sky dreams of ideal solutions just wind up bogging down development. I'm a very realistic guy when it comes to these things and am constantly evaluating cost/benefit. Idealism in development makes me ill.

Personally, I'd much rather Mojang focus on the bare bones of what is needed, such as ML style functionality, extended Block IDs, extended texture indexes, and that kind of thing before they start getting caught up in trying to create an ideal modding system. IMO, the present reason the mod API development is at a virtual standstill is because they're focusing way too much on theoretically ideal solutions, and finding it impossible to please absolutely everyone.

[finite8]

My biggest hope for the API is that it will actually be the end of Technic ;)

Now you're swinging too far into fantastical optimism... :P

Too right there. All too many people want "Moar end-game content"... a term I don't fully comprehend. My interpretation of that is Bullshit rings, Swords, and armours that make you fly, send a million arrows at enemies without aiming, regenerate health, regenerate hunger, create walls of any block instantly, spawn items out of then air, break every block in front of you and kill every enemy with a single swipe.

Basically, they want to PLAY McEdit. They are doomed to make the same mistakes again and again, failing to understand that "too much fun in a short amount of time can only serve to overload your senses and dilute the experience". Game experience is like a fine wine. Overfill your glasses and very soon you will drink so much of it that you bore of its taste, rather than pacing the experience and extending it. That way, you will be able to drink more of the wine and savour it all the better over a far greater period of time.

Whenever i think of this concept, i always go back to what Ben Crosshaw said:

Minecraft is a responsible parent. It knows you'll swiftly get bored of your golden cock and balls if it just gives you one, so it pays you five dollars a week to wash its car so you can save up and gain an appreciation for value. And when you finally have your golden cock and balls, you'll love it all the more

Technic, EE and all that only serve to remove that element.

Edit: Typo.

[FlowerChild]

Technic, EE and all that only server to remove that element.

Not to mention that the developers of MC themselves are forgetting that element. Sometimes I wish somebody would smack Jeb upside the head with that article.

[FlowerChild]

Oh, and one last point about idealism with regards to the mod API:

Until the official API covers all the functionality that the majority of mods out there need, there's absolutely zero point to discuss, let alone design or develop an automatic mod distribution system (which to me, isn't even part of the API and should be a separate issue entirely). Otherwise, such a distribution system will be entirely useless as the mods using it will still need to modify base-classes either themselves, or through a community API.

In other words, until the official API covers all the functionality in ModLoader, Audiomod, Forge, and probably a few other lesser known APIs that people are using, all this talk about automatic mod distribution is entirely irrelevant. I can virtually guarantee it's going to be a very long time before Mojang is able to cover all of that at their current pace.

[PatriotBob]

Oh, and one last point about idealism with regards to the mod API:

Until the official API covers all the functionality that the majority of mods out there need, there's absolutely zero point to discuss, let alone design or develop an automatic mod distribution system (which to me, isn't even part of the API and should be a separate issue entirely). Otherwise, such a distribution system will be entirely useless as the mods using it will still need to modify base-classes either themselves, or through a community API.

In other words, until the official API covers all the functionality in ModLoader, Audiomod, Forge, and probably a few other lesser known APIs that people are using, all this talk about automatic mod distribution is entirely irrelevant. I can virtually guarantee it's going to be a very long time before Mojang is able to cover all of that at their current pace.

Sadly, you're completely right.

Is it possible that an API could be written as flexible as you would need. Sure. But your right, it's not going to happen.

And I would never suggest you do anything to lessen your mod's potential. Not that I think you'd listen... :)

[MoRmEnGiL]

I can virtually guarantee it's going to be a very long time before Mojang is able to cover all of that at their current pace.

If they ever do, which I do not even know if I want them to or not, given the effort and the bugs and the half assed features that will be thrown in to keep people from exploding in "WHY NO NEW FEATURES" nerdrage.

[FlowerChild]

If they ever do, which I do not even know if I want them to or not, given the effort and the bugs and the half assed features that will be thrown in to keep people from exploding in "WHY NO NEW FEATURES" nerdrage.

It doesn't really make sense for them to either. They're developing a game, not a universal modding system. Like I've said, I'd much prefer they just stay practical about the whole thing, provide the base-line functionality that is required, and then reevaluate from there.

People are obviously making mods already, so they're not really giving us the power to do anything we can't right now. Yes, they could make that process easier, but I think much like my recent work with SMP optimization, they should really be trying to address the big issues first, then make judgement calls on what to do with the smaller ones, to decide whether it is really worth it or not.

[PatriotBob]

If they ever do, which I do not even know if I want them to or not, given the effort and the bugs and the half assed features that will be thrown in to keep people from exploding in "WHY NO NEW FEATURES" nerdrage.

It doesn't really make sense for them to either. They're developing a game, not a universal modding system. Like I've said, I'd much prefer they just stay practical about the whole thing, provide the base-line functionality that is required, and then reevaluate from there.

People are obviously making mods already, so they're not really giving us the power to do anything we can't right now. Yes, they could make that process easier, but I think much like my recent work with SMP optimization, they should really be trying to address the big issues first, then make judgement calls on what to do with the smaller ones, to decide whether it is really worth it or not.

Nope. That makes far too much sense.

[FlowerChild]

Nope. That makes far too much sense.

Hehe...yeah, that's largely why I phased out and hardly participated in the IRC "mod API meeting" that happened awhile ago. It rapidly devolved into a bunch of pie in the sky wankery that I had zero interest in.

My one brief mention of me not seeing the API ever being able to fully accommodate BTW was met with "but we can do anything!", at which point I began watching vids on Youtube ;)

[PatriotBob]

Nope. That makes far too much sense.

Hehe...yeah, that's largely why I phased out and hardly participated in the IRC "mod API meeting" that happened awhile ago. It rapidly devolved into a bunch of pie in the sky wankery that I had zero interest in.

My one brief mention of me not seeing the API ever being able to fully accommodate BTW was met with "but we can do anything!", at which point I began watching vids on Youtube ;)

Yeah, I've read through that whole thing. I figured that's why you limited your self to a few comments. The only way they would be able to provide you with anything you need, would be to allow you to explicitly override the base class functionality and that level of integration isn't possible with any manner of traditional API and would make mod compatibility near nothing. But as you say, they would have to be building like a base game framework then, rather than a full game, because event hooks will only get you so far.

So we are were we are. And I'm looking forward to see what interesting things come from this week's jar file hackery.

[weldaSB]

If they ever do, which I do not even know if I want them to or not, given the effort and the bugs and the half assed features that will be thrown in to keep people from exploding in "WHY NO NEW FEATURES" nerdrage.

It doesn't really make sense for them to either. They're developing a game, not a universal modding system. Like I've said, I'd much prefer they just stay practical about the whole thing, provide the base-line functionality that is required, and then reevaluate from there.

People are obviously making mods already, so they're not really giving us the power to do anything we can't right now. Yes, they could make that process easier, but I think much like my recent work with SMP optimization, they should really be trying to address the big issues first, then make judgement calls on what to do with the smaller ones, to decide whether it is really worth it or not.

Nope. That makes far too much sense.

Saw this and had to post. I finished reading Lord of the Flies in English class today, and the state of the Minecraft community relates all to well to that book. I only hope that minecraft doesn't end in the same way that book did.