Question about BTW V4.AAAAAAAAAAHHHH (Spoilers?)

[emptychild]

TLDR: Is the game considerably harder than it was before? I've seen people make comments about it being rage inducing.

So with some of the newer BTW changes I think I've reached the limit of how Hardcore a gamer I am. I think BTW is amazing and I'm not suggesting FC not follow his heart on any change he wants. That being said, with some of the new changes I'm reaching the point that the frustration to enjoyment ratio is reaching overall un-fun levels. This is fine and is not an indictment of the mod because FC has always said this mod isn't designed to be for everyone. I love the harder changes in theory but I'm just not that good I guess. So seeing "Changed the entire mod" is super exciting because FC is a genius but I don't want to join into something that I'll love parts of only to be ultimately frustrated.

[FlowerChild]

Inb4 Gil tries to tell you how easy it is after he watched 20 hours of lets play streams before trying it :)

Yeah, to answer your question, it's much harder man. I've been saying it's the most intense survival experience I've had in any game, and my previous top was probably The Long Dark. I enjoy it thoroughly, but it still routinely kicks my ass. I personally think there's enough content in the early game now to sustain repeated attempts at it, but of course if the survival portion isn't your cup of tea, that's going to be an issue.

Not sure what to say beyond that man. If you're finding it more frustrating than fun the only thing I can suggest is perhaps give it a try after all the features are well known by the community so that you aren't going in blind. If it's still not enjoyable for you, it's a shame, but yeah, as you're already aware I always tailor BTW to be the gameplay experience that I want to play, and that's caused a fair number of people to leave it be over the years as a result.

[dawnraider]

It's hard. It's frustrating. But it's really, really fun. Take this with a grain of salt, because usually one of the first settings I change in a video game is to turn up the difficulty. I've quit from frustration multiple times over the past several days, since this is the first time I've ever not recovered from a HC spawn, but I always come back either after a few hours, or the next day. I just backed into a ravine trying to run from a creeper, so I probably won't be playing until tomorrow.

I definitely agree with FC that it is pretty intense and difficult, but I do think it's worth it. The mod still has the same charm as always, and the difficulty *mostly* leveled off for me from what I could tell to a bit harder than before once I got iron tools (again grain of salt because I never got anything towards sustainability).

[Ethinolicbob]

I'm going to come in with the opposite tack.
Its different and working it all out the first time is pretty tough but once you have cleansed yourself of how it used to be and sorted out the new mechanics its not that much harder.
Its a LOT more fun and its definitely longer than it used to be before it marries up to what you remember.
Once you get the knack of all of the changes you'll be fine.

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my mind as I'm sure ol' Flower hasn't finished with us yet :P

[FlowerChild]

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my mind as I'm sure ol' Flower hasn't finished with us yet :P

I think you may find your experience varies significantly from spawn to spawn.

Having played through it fully a few times now (and partially more times than I can count), I know that it's balanced on such a razor's edge that just when you think you've got things under control it can turn on you in an instant.

Honestly, I'm really proud of the degree to which I find it is balanced in that way, and I feel it may be some of the best work I've ever done professionally or otherwise. IMO, it's pushed right up to the edge of what can be reasonably considered skill based without crossing into random blameless deaths, but man, if you slip up the least bit, you'll often be smacked hard for it.

That despite me knowing how all the innards of this beast function, it can still humble and surprise me during play, I take as a sign that I must have done something right here.

[Gilberreke]

Inb4 Gil tries to tell you how easy it is after he watched 20 hours of lets play streams before trying it :)

Haha, harsh. I didn't just watch 20 hours of LP actually, I also spent 10 hours testing things in test worlds, trying recipes in established worlds, trying out run after run to figure out some strategies for dealing with it. Here's the point why I did that: I'm not the kind of gamer that enjoys figuring things out (unless that's the point of the game, like a puzzle game). I'm a really bad gamer, as I don't game much and I need every edge I can get. When I first played vanilla Minecraft, I think I read the entire wiki before opening the game :)

Here's my opinion on the new meta, using that knowledge:

- I find it much smoother, there are equal amounts of grind, but it's spread out more over varied activities
- The edge is indeed razor sharp. You simply can't decide to spend 3 minutes enjoying the scenery on day 1. Especially since certain decisions start you on a slow decline that's hard to stop, so a wrong decision can hurt you two days later.
- When you know the rules the new update plays by, it's not an order of magnitude harder, it's just that in the past you could get away with playing optimally 50% of the time, now it's 95%. For me personally, what has changed is that I can't play the mod for 8 hours on end anymore, after 2 hours, I have to call it a day.

I mean this as an encouragement for those getting frustrated: wait until the spoiler period is over and you can get some proper help from the community. You'll see it's entirely do-able. Vioki and Charley, being way better players than I am, are already doing fine and are thriving. What's more, you'll notice that the new early game is just plain better. I've been having the most fun with BTW I've had in about 3 or 4 years I think. Between the changes of the tech tree to get some more content in the middle game and this insane effort to smoothen out the early game, BTW has become yet again another level above its previous self in a month's time. There are so many small little things to this new update, that I'm going "oh damn, I can also do this! This changes everything!" every 20 minutes. It's a goddamn work of art :)

[FlowerChild]

Haha, harsh.

Sorry. Watching a carefully crafted early game experience reduced to a discussion of the precise number of units of saw dust to add to a campfire at any given moment left a lasting impression as to the full extent of your pre-game OCD :)

[Dr Ug]

Having played through it fully a few times now (and partially more times than I can count), I know that it's balanced on such a razor's edge that just when you think you've got things under control it can turn on you in an instant.

Honestly, I'm really proud of the degree to which I find it is balanced in that way, and I feel it may be some of the best work I've ever done professionally or otherwise. IMO, it's pushed right up to the edge of what can be reasonably considered skill based without crossing into random blameless deaths, but man, if you slip up the least bit, you'll often be smacked hard for it.

This puts into words how I have been feeling playing these updates. I don't think I've ever played a game so well balanced before. It punishes you for the smallest mistake, in a way that it definitely feels like it was your mistake, not a strange quirk of the engine, or a bug. Still very early tech wise in my new playthrough, but so far that is how it feels. I have been gaming for three decades, and can honestly say BTW is in my to two games, possibly edging out the civilization series for top position.

Thank you FlowerChild for literally the weeks of playtime you have given me.

Edit: actually, it's probably months rather than weeks

[Fret]

spoilers, you've been warned

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So far I have also struggled with the new changes. I never considered myself a hardcore gamer and always struggled with the harder and more survival aspects of this game. But I’ve learned to deal with it.

The first few hours of playing 4.AAAAA…HH were hell. I just kept dying and feeling very frustrated. I wasn’t sure whether I was playing a survival game or if I was locked up in someone’s digital torture dungeon. Maybe BTW should have a new name: ‘Samsara: The Game’. At one point my brain even said: “The deck of cards is stacked against you, this ain’t a game; it’s just Flowerchild’s revenge trolling us for all the idiotic suggestions we made in that thread”. So at some point I just walked away fuming and grumbling.

But I came back to it. What helped was watching some let’s plays, figuring out some of the new mechanics and recipes in safety in my old world, and of course, Gil saying it’s actually very easy, that helped a lot too ;)

So I started a new world, with a more chill attitude about it. And so for it has been pretty smooth sailing. I think key to getting in the new rhythm is figuring out the campfire mechanics. I progressed further under the new system, than I ever did before. I had my food situation under control and had my iron tools. I did die eventually, but that was because it was my first time deep mining. I did keep spare torches, but with all my top layer tunnels dark again, I got lost and then all my torches went out thanks to some water. That’s okay, next time I’ll be better prepared. And once I do that, I’ll get my diamonds, I’ll get my nether access, I’ll get my perma-lighting again and everything will be back to normal again.

Maybe it’s a bit early to speculate on this, but I think that the new increased difficulty of respawns puts extra emphasis on horizontal development of your world (as in roads, landmarks, waypoints, multiple bases, etc). As opposed to vertically rushing up the tech tree.

Also, we also shouldn’t forget the long term nature of this game. We spend ours upon ours just clearing a mineshaft system, chopping down a forest, building a mobtrap, or building an entire new base just to trade with villagers. The full BTW experience takes hundreds of hours and just one single world can provide you with a hobby for a few years.

So, give yourself some time to get adjusted to the new system. This is one of the biggest changes in BTW's history. No need to beat yourself up over it, if you don’t figure it out immediately.

[Stormweaver]

It's definitely harder. I say this as someone who has reached the nether just twice since stratification was added.

It's fun though. Early game actually feels like a game again, instead of a punishment for dying. Each early tech milestone tends to give substancial quality-of-life upgrades, and you're rewarded significantly for being a little daring.

I doubt I'm any more likely to find diamonds now than I was before, but I'll have a bit more fun trying at least.

[LannyRipple]

So I showed my kids and they were like, "Nope!" Luckily I've got a 4.A8 world we are playing together and can just keep that around eternally to let them play in.

My first time in 4.AA I figured out dirt and was thinking, "There goes my simple base." (Dig 5x5x1 hole. Almost enough dirt for walls and strategic dirt makes it spider proof.) So I built a new one. It works ok. Needs a jump gate to get in instead of ladders but I was feeling good that I'd be able to harvest any spiders that spawned in the night. I got a torch and a campfire and was figuring out those mechanics and it started to rain. No more torch. No more campfire. (Well of course not. That should have been obvious.) So I get an axe and some wood. Wood block in a corner to keep things dry. I'll need to light the torch first so I put it out of the rain. Light it. Pick it up. (Grr, FC.) So I finally get everything squared away and light the fire. I'm cooking away watching the fire and think, "That's odd. The campfire seems to be putting out more light all of a sudden. I wonder why?" THEN I notice I had set my base on fire. :(

It reminded me so much of the Hitchiker's Guide game where you are trying to get the babel-fish. You figure everything out and then something else you hadn't planned happens to set you back. Everything obvious in hindsight and you are SO sure this time you've got it all worked out until that, "What? WHAT?!" moment. Loving it.

[Norton]

Slightly different perspective, since I'm definitely in the "survival portion isn't your cup of tea" bucket and still bleeping stuck in that.

I find it harder, but smoother. The game seems more specific about what you're supposed to do to make progress (after a few key spoilers). I'm dying more frequently, which is wearing some of the rage off that, and finding more tricks to preserve items, which tickles the puzzle-gamer. Ultimately I'm not making progress as quickly as before, but find it a more fun experience rather than less.

[hawk]

Question about the starting not chest:

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What's in the box?!? I was expecting nothing to spawn but once I saw what did, I was hoping for (a chance at) everyone's favorite survival trophy. I don't think I'm quite there yet but seemed like a fun thing to try for. Plus its a useless item that most would try to keep and would offset the extra inventory spot you get. Just getting the extra spot makes me feel like a dirty cheater or like I'm parking in a handicap parking spot... not that I'd do that... no really, I wouldn't :)

I know its optional and my shameful feelings can easily be solved by simply not checking the box when starting a new world. Just wanted to give some tongue-in-cheek but kinda serious observational feedback

[FlowerChild]

Question about the starting not chest:

Is it not in there? It should be.

[hawk]

Tried it twice?

[hawk]

I left clicked and it ate it. Its there on the right click... sorry :/

EDIT: It does eat it if you punch it first. Re place it and put something else in and it behaves as before

EDIT 2:

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The witch hut basket gives up its containing item if you punch it. I haven't stumbled upon any others whether they exist or not

EDIT 3: I wasn't testing anymore. I learned from my mistake was just settling down to start a new world and

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I found a starting basket that really is empty

unless I really am going crazy. Can someone else please test this on SEED# 2406837335882581690? I tried it three times and got the same result.

[FlowerChild]

I left clicked and it ate it. Its there on the right click... sorry :/

Just confirmed there's a bug where it may or may not have had its contents. Will fix for next release.