Vanilla Minecraft News Discussion

[gaga654]

Speaking of barriers, what are your thoughts on the new barrier blocks? I can see a few uses for them, but I think that for the most part they are going to be abused - in general, having walls that you can't see tends to be just obnoxious and annoying. That being said, in my opinion acceptable uses for them would be for say, putting them on top of other walls to ensure that people don't find tricky ways to jump over them; basically, using them to supplement any type of visible barricade to maintain aesthetics while ensuring that it is impassable. But I envision people using them a lot as just walls in their own right. What was the need for them in the first place, anyway? I've never come across a situation that I thought would be improved by adding something like this... any idea what the inspiration was?

[FlowerChild]

On the barrier blocks: I tend to stay away from anything adventure related (hence why the iron trap door mystified me), and that's clearly the intended use with them.

To me, the strength of MC as a game is the player's ability to manipulate his environment. Games where you can not do so are plentiful, and frankly, are far better at that style of gameplay than MC ever will be.

So, to me, adventure maps, and features dedicated to adventure mode are a big waste of time, that IMO that should be left to other games. Like always, I think that a game's development should focus on its strength, not its weaknesses.

Anyways, suffice it to say features like barrier blocks get a big "whatever" from me, as I think they're a big waste of dev time that could be better spent elsewhere, but that at least it isn't being devoted to decreasing the overall quality of the game.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Why the big surprise from iron trapdoors? It's the same thing as how iron and wooden doors used to be..

I for one like the iron trapdoors. Wooden ones are often annoying to work around when they open and close whenever you missclick around them, and that happens to me a lot :P

[Puzzled]

How would you craft the iron trap doors? Wouldn't it conflict with iron bars?

[Nabetsu122]

How would you craft the iron trap doors? Wouldn't it conflict with iron bars?

Four pieces of iron in a 2x2 square makes one trapdoor. It is more expensive (resource wise), but it means that you can create an indestructible (mob-wise) panic door at night without a crafting table, if you have the spare iron.

I do happen to agree with MoR, but more for the aesthetic look. Minus above, there really isn't any other use that I can think of for these on a normal SSP/SMP world, unless you want to re-create your favorite destroyer from WWII.

[Six]

How would you craft the iron trap doors? Wouldn't it conflict with iron bars?

I hadn't even considered the fact they break that consistency. I feel they would have been better off reversing that, making bars 2x2 and keeping the logic between door / trapdoor shapes.

[barcode]

Is it just me or has Mojang killed modding in general? I was just browsing the MCF Mods section again and realized that hardly anything at all was running with 1.7.x, so I went to the Wiki and found out that pretty much only the stuff like McPatcher, Optifine and TMI was updated to 1.7... no Modloader, no Forge... is anyone following what's going on there? Is it cause Searge is now Mojang or what's going on?

[FlowerChild]

Is it just me or has Mojang killed modding in general? I was just browsing the MCF Mods section again and realized that hardly anything at all was running with 1.7.x, so I went to the Wiki and found out that pretty much only the stuff like McPatcher, Optifine and TMI was updated to 1.7... no Modloader, no Forge... is anyone following what's going on there? Is it cause Searge is now Mojang or what's going on?

My limited (since what Mojang does doesn't affect me any longer, so I don't follow it too closely for my own sanity) understanding of what's happened is that Dinnerbone and Grum have been going on a massive "rewrite all the things just because!" rampage internally and it's been making it hell to update Forge, let alone the mods that depend on it to newer versions.

It's basically the end(ish) result of what I've been talking about for a long time on how rewriting the code base to create a mod API on a game where you already have an established modding community is a rather bad idea, as you'll likely trash said community in the process. The mod api was WAY too ambitious from the get go, it's lingered forever going nowhere as a result, and now that it is finally going somewhere (well...kinda. I don't think there's actually any api functionality there yet...this is still the prep work for it) it's making things hell on modders.

Last I heard Forge had managed to update to 1.7 something a little while ago though, so maybe they'll get through this round in the end. Not sure how many modders will have a "fuck this" reaction though once they see the extent of the work they have ahead of them just to adapt to Mojang's whims.

As always, I'm very happy I just stepped away from the whole thing versions ago and decided I'd no longer update to new versions of MC. Being dependent on a changing code base is bad enough. Being dependent on one going through what is essentially a complete rewrite bit by bit for goals I don't even see the value in? Yeah...fuck that.

[barcode]

As always, I'm very happy I just stepped away from the whole thing versions ago and decided I'd no longer update to new versions of MC. Being dependent on a changing code base is bad enough. Being dependent on one going through what is essentially a complete rewrite bit by bit for goals I don't even see the value in? Yeah...fuck that.

Thanks man, I only now read in the latest change notes that there's code rewrite "to prepare for the API", but didn't know they had done so massively (for, as you explained, no real reason). So props to you (again), looks like you found the perfect moment to quit that treadmill. =)

[Tsugumi Henduluin]

Is it just me or has Mojang killed modding in general?

Are you sure the mods simply aren't released to the public yet? The Mindcrack guys are currently running a rather heavily modded 1.7 server, though I wouldn't be surprised if they're essentially beta-testing it for the modders as the pack they're using isn't available to anyone not on the server (yet).

[barcode]

Is it just me or has Mojang killed modding in general?

Are you sure the mods simply aren't released to the public yet? The Mindcrack guys are currently running a rather heavily modded 1.7 server, though I wouldn't be surprised if they're essentially beta-testing it for the modders as the pack they're using isn't available to anyone not on the server (yet).

If I was sure I wouldn't have asked ;-). But I follow the Mindcrackers on YT and enjoy it as a sideshow when not too busy at work and noticed that as well, so I thought it was all dandy, until I looked in the modding section on MCF the other day and was quite surprised to see hardly anything on 1.7 at all.

[Sandrew]

Is it just me or has Mojang killed modding in general?

Are you sure the mods simply aren't released to the public yet? The Mindcrack guys are currently running a rather heavily modded 1.7 server, though I wouldn't be surprised if they're essentially beta-testing it for the modders as the pack they're using isn't available to anyone not on the server (yet).

The Mindcrack FTB pack runs on version 1.4.7, I checked the Feed The Beast website and no FTB pack runs on versions more recent than 1.5.2. Forge for 1.7.2 has only been out two weeks at the moment.

[Tsugumi Henduluin]

The Mindcrack FTB pack runs on version 1.4.7, I checked the Feed The Beast website and no FTB pack runs on versions more recent than 1.5.2.

Zisteau mentioned they were running a 1.7 pack.

If I was sure I wouldn't have asked ;-)

Err, yeah. Fair enough. I suppose I could have worded that better... Sorry.
Guess they're using devbuilds or something then.

[barcode]

Zisteau mentioned they were running a 1.7 pack.

Err, yeah. Fair enough. I suppose I could have worded that better... Sorry.
Guess they're using devbuilds or something then.

No worries, it's all in good fun, but it's quite interesting to see what will eventually become of all this. First this whole Forge ordeal, where a lot of modders moved from ML to Forge, and now the shift to the official API, should it ever take any shape at all, the question is: are there going to be enough quality modders left to make proper use of it? Changing to codebase for no reason twice must take ages you could be spending on refining your mod, not your code. This must be quite a blow to the community, and the MCF crowd goes nuts... 'Why you no updatez maaaan!' at the same time when they're just sitting ducks without any API to work with. I would assume the mods over there must be having a hard time as well... I guess time will tell, but I have the only MC mod I'll ever need anyways. ;)

[Thyrllann]

Zisteau mentioned they were running a 1.7 pack.

Nah, I'm pretty sure they're running 1.6.4 - if you look at the terrain gen, you've got a jungle next to a desert next to a swamp, which doesn't happen in the most recent versions on vanilla

[dawnraider]

They're running 1.7 on a 1.6 world. Regardless, though this is getting a bit off topic.

Back on track- Yeah, this whole rewrite stuff has just been stupid, as it really has no actual benefits, everything is just theoretical ideals that don't actually happen. I am so glad BTW stopped updating so we don't have to deal with any of this shit.

[agaricus]

Is it just me or has Mojang killed modding in general? I was just browsing the MCF Mods section again and realized that hardly anything at all was running with 1.7.x, so I went to the Wiki and found out that pretty much only the stuff like McPatcher, Optifine and TMI was updated to 1.7... no Modloader, no Forge... is anyone following what's going on there? Is it cause Searge is now Mojang or what's going on?

It is not just you, there has been a definite decline in modding lately. I had the same feeling so I decided to try to come up with an objective measurement, here is the result:

http://i.imgur.com/7BADyzK.png

graph of the number of mods per major Minecraft version. Not a perfect proxy for "health of the modding community" (given quantity is not quality, smaller mods may be combined into larger mods, etc.), but I suspect it is not too far off. Also the data is from last month, but has not changed much since then. Latest numbers from the MCF modlist: http://modlist.mcf.li/version

If this graph is to be believed, then modding has "peaked" around 1.4.x, and has been in decline ever since. This is not too far off from at least my subjective opinion (that 1.5.x was the best version for modded Minecraft).

I checked the Feed The Beast website and no FTB pack runs on versions more recent than 1.5.2.

They have separate 1.6.4 packs, but the 1.5.2 packs are still fairly popular (judging from questions on various FTB forums, I still see 1.5.2 discussion not too infrequently).

Last I heard Forge had managed to update to 1.7 something a little while ago though, so maybe they'll get through this round in the end. Not sure how many modders will have a "fuck this" reaction though once they see the extent of the work they have ahead of them just to adapt to Mojang's whims.

Yeah Forge was able to update but not without difficulty, took almost nearly as long as the 1.3 update:

http://i.imgur.com/ezisENV.png (note: the negative value for 1.4 was due to the prerelease)

And they had to rewrite major pieces of their infrastructure. Glad I got out of the game when I did, too.

As always, I'm very happy I just stepped away from the whole thing versions ago and decided I'd no longer update to new versions of MC. Being dependent on a changing code base is bad enough. Being dependent on one going through what is essentially a complete rewrite bit by bit for goals I don't even see the value in? Yeah...fuck that.

Seriously. Its like they never read Things You Should Never Do, Part I by Joel Spolsky, or learned from other historical product failures involving major rewrites.

Borland, 1988:

Before Borland's new spreadsheet for Windows shipped, Philippe Kahn, the colorful founder of Borland, was quoted a lot in the press bragging about how Quattro Pro would be much better than Microsoft Excel, because it was written from scratch. All new source code! As if source code rusted.

Mojang, 2013:
showing off the massive amount of code rewritten in 1.7, and planning even more for 1.8+: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcOlgpzuz0I#t=02m37s

When you throw away code and start from scratch, you are throwing away all that knowledge. All those collected bug fixes. Years of programming work.

You are throwing away your market leadership.

This misstep could be a great opportunity for other block-style sandbox games to catch up or surpass Minecraft. There are a number of open source alternatives (all with official mod support) gaining steam, and more and more modders seem to be branching out with their own independent games lately.

[Zuriki]

I don't know if I'm recalling correctly, but wasn't the time between updates for 1.4->1.5->1.6 versions quite large, which would reflect the general "popularity" of mods during this period as most modders has enough time to update for said versions? If I am remembering correctly it would make sense that the largest amount of modder activity would be during the time when there is the least amount of official developer activity.

Anyway, it's the natural order of things that modders go on to create their own standalone games. Always has been really. Modding is great as a launch pad. It gets people into development without having to start from scratch, you can build up a small following from which you can exploit to build hype for your own standalone project.

I don't know about other people, but having tried some of the alternative voxel based "world-builder" type games on offer, I am thoroughly unimpressed. I think TUG (The Untitled Game) is the one which shows the most promise, but I find myself missing that distinct Minecraft charm. To put my feelings in to context: if you removed Minecraft from BTW entirely, it takes with it a part of the soul of the mod - which is the disdain for the direction Minecraft is going and using wolves as pseudo-voodoo dolls for Minecraft development in general (hence the rather cruel nature with which they are treated). Taken out of context of Minecraft and it's just animal cruelty and a little bit stomach-churning too...

[Uristqwerty]

forge's environment is becoming increasingly hostile towards modding, though I don't want to elaborate on it too much (as it would be fairly off-topic here, and probably just devolve into politics and bannings). Based on my experience trying to use it so far, though, the low 1.7 mod count is only partially due to Mojang's changes...

[nmarshall23]

forge's environment is becoming increasingly hostile towards modding, though I don't want to elaborate on it too much (as it would be fairly off-topic here, and probably just devolve into politics and bannings). Based on my experience trying to use it so far, though, the low 1.7 mod count is only partially due to Mojang's changes...

Would you mind expanding that on the Off Topic Forum?

I figured, that modder's were not updating to 1.7 because it looks like 1.8 will also feature great many changes as well.

[FlowerChild]

Yeah, let's move on from this particular sub-topic please. It's likely to devolve into a lot of uninformed wankery and hostility.

[Gilberreke]

Yeah, let's move on from this particular sub-topic please. It's likely to devolve into a lot of uninformed wankery and hostility.

But that's the best kind of wankery :(

[Restless]

They're running 1.7 on a 1.6 world. Regardless, though this is getting a bit off topic.

Sorry to take this thread back off topic, but wanted to clear up that the new Feed the Beast pack the Mindcrackers are playing on is in fact for 1.6.4. Check any episode where a player opens up the F3 screen, like in Etho's FTB episode 6, and you can see the Minecraft version at the top. It's 1.6.4.

[FlowerChild]

Dude...

"Sorry I'm kicking you" does not make it all right. In fact, saying you are fully aware of what you're doing makes it worse.

[barcode]

I have a feeling this is going to make you chuckle, Flowerchild. ;)

http://youtu.be/R-3DnMtzk_c?t=7m3s

As for the rest, I like the possibilities they add for mapmakers, but their focus on that aspect as of late surely is only interesting for a very small crowd. That wolf-thing seems like an awfully small feature, randomly tossed in for the survival players. Or does it mark the turning point where they will show the world that nothing is better than wolves?