The beginning of iron tier

[erikdk321]

Very true, it takes a very long time to kill all the animals within 500 blocks unless you live close to an ocean

[FlowerChild]

Second, in the early game caving is the only efficient method of mining, and an iron pick doesn't save nearly as much time there since I'm not tearing through a bunch of stone. (I find that branch mining is only barely viable with an iron pick, since it's difficult to get 27 iron before the pick's durability runs out.)

Actually, it does help a great deal with caving without resorting to branch mining. I don't tend towards branch mining until I have an enchanted diamond pick.

An iron pick allows you to dig down through the 2nd strata layer. Whenever I'm starting a base, I'm constantly digging downwards in its basement at night, listening for mob and water sounds to direct me towards caves. I do this to eventually intersect a cave as low down in the world as possible that will be more likely to take me down into the bottom strata on my hunt for diamonds. Even if it isn't that far down, any caves that I find along the way will be accessible from the interior of my base which greatly increases potential nighttime activities.

Finding a surface level cave that extends down that far is exceedingly difficult by comparison. Using a combination of mining and caving is thus much more efficient, and an iron pick dramatically improves the mining part of that equation.

[JakeZKAM]

I prefer getting farming equipment going (Hoe, Shears, and Bucket) before anything else mostly because 1. I like to put off caving as much as possible (that shit is scary.) 2. I like to have a stable food source set up at spawn ASAP as a safety net and 3. Like someone else already said I don't see too much of an issue using stone picks a little longer since I need to make the area safe anyways. Although it is nice to eventually have said Iron pick to speed it up. I've made iron shovels a few times when I've been rich in iron to help find more ores buried in the walls (and gather lots of dirt for my pitiful buildings and roads) but I don't think I've made an iron axe even when I've had excess, seems too much like a waste.

[jkievlan]

Actually, it does help a great deal with caving without resorting to branch mining. I don't tend towards branch mining until I have an enchanted diamond pick.

An iron pick allows you to dig down through the 2nd strata layer. Whenever I'm starting a base, I'm constantly digging downwards in its basement at night, listening for mob and water sounds to direct me towards caves. I do this to eventually intersect a cave as low down in the world as possible that will be more likely to take me down into the bottom strata on my hunt for diamonds. Even if it isn't that far down, any caves that I find along the way will be accessible from the interior of my base which greatly increases potential nighttime activities.

Finding a surface level cave that extends down that far is exceedingly difficult by comparison. Using a combination of mining and caving is thus much more efficient, and an iron pick dramatically improves the mining part of that equation.

Yes, those are fair points. I don't mean to imply that an iron pickaxe is useless (I definitely make one after the hoe) but that I can get by just fine without it until I've built a base that runs itself in terms of food supply and defense. I don't really need a pickaxe until I go for diamonds/redstone, and I generally wait on that until I know my base is self-sufficient on a basic level. It's a personal preference, and anybody who likes to get a lot of tech quickly probably won't like it, but I do :)

[FlowerChild]

Yup, I'm on board with the personal preference thing (and really, that's an indication that the balance is getting pretty good), just not with misrepresenting the usefulness of various tools ;)

[Gilberreke]

Yup, I'm on board with the personal preference thing (and really, that's an indication that the balance is getting pretty good), just not with misrepresenting the usefulness of various tools ;)

We were talking about it on IRC a while ago. The balance is good enough that if your first cave find is a ravine, you can even opt for iron sword first, to go for the ravine riches.

Unfortunately, the amount of uses shears have mean that they are not quite viable as first pick, but it's close, with leather doubling and making creepers a non-issue. I didn't play back when creeper shearing only took one use, but I can imagine it was way over the top, as I find that taking creepers out of the picture makes MC a LOT safer.

[FlowerChild]

BTW makes MC hard enough overall that even with taking creepers out of the picture entirely, it would still be way harder than vanilla :P

Many have stated objections to creepers being "nerfed" or what have you there. My reaction is basically along the lines of "nerfed compared to what?". The balance of BTW, and that of vanilla are two very different things.

IMO the only tool that's still a bit off is the axe. Not sure if I'll wind up doing something like that or just leave it as is in the long run.

[gaga654]

Thanks for all of the different perspectives, everyone. From what I've heard, I think I might try to suppress my inner fear of starvation and try making an iron pick first. On a related note, how do you all manage to go caving and survive long enough to get an iron pick? I always end up being ambushed by a zombie, skeleton, or sometimes creeper.

[VegasGoat]

On a related note, how do you all manage to go caving and survive long enough to get an iron pick?

My method is to grab a lot of dirt and very carefully close off any places where mobs can wander in when I'm not looking. Usually I make a dirt line across unexplored branches so I know that I blocked it off and it's still unexplored. My goal is to stop creepers and skeletons sneaking up on me. The odd spider gets through but I can handle them. Also, retreat as soon as you hear a skeleton and come back later after he's gone.

[Gilberreke]

Mobs despawn. So if I run into a situation I can't handle, mob-wise, I just run in, throw some torches, get my ass out of there and go on a hunting expedition. By the time I come back, the mobs despawned. Besides that, zombies and creepers are easy to kill, even with a stone axe. Skeletons are lethal, unless you've got a method of cornering them and if you have a combination of zombies and creepers, it might be best to book it. If you've got any situation where a skeleton combines with anything else, you book it double time.

[FlowerChild]

If you're not into gamey exploits like the above, then just be cautious, make sure you don't leave dark unexplored tunnels at your back, and don't go plunging into dangerous situations.

Gil, can you do me a favor and stop pulling back the curtain on the wizard for new players like that? :P

[gaga654]

Yeah, the issue is that I am casually mining when suddenly there are zombies attacking me out of nowhere. I suppose I should try actually blocking off dark passages to keep them from coming out.

EDIT: I don't see how that is really exploity, though... running away from skeletons, and then coming back once they're gone? That seems like a pretty natural thing to me; it is my instinctive choice of action, assuming I can't corner them and the skeletons don't get the drop on me and kill me before I can get my bearings.

[FlowerChild]

Running away when you can't handle a situation isn't gamey, and it definitely makes sense to do so. Explaining it in terms of the underlying mechanics is. Gil has a tendency towards doing the latter....constantly.

[Gilberreke]

Running away when you can't handle a situation isn't gamey, and it definitely makes sense to do so. Explaining it in terms of the underlying mechanics is. Gil has a tendency towards doing the latter....constantly.

Apparently I do, at least lately. I've been studying the BTW mechanics a lot. I'll be more careful, but it requires me to consciously not do it, so bear with me, I'm trying :/

[FlowerChild]

Apparently I do, at least lately. I've been studying the BTW mechanics a lot. I'll be more careful, but it requires me to consciously not do it, so bear with me, I'm trying :/

Try to think of it as being a GM in a table top RPG man. I know a lot of developers don't care about that kind of thing, and openly discuss underlying mechanics, but yeah, I really prefer to keep things a tad more "in character" so to speak.

[ExpHP]

Yeah, the issue is that I am casually mining when suddenly there are zombies attacking me out of nowhere. I suppose I should try actually blocking off dark passages to keep them from coming out.

On that note, yeah, this is one of the most important things you can do. I dig out at least half of the dirt veins I come across, and even then, I'm almost always low on dirt because I need so dang much of it!

As a general rule of thumb, if there was a branching path or a tunnel in the ceiling that you did not block off or light up, you are not safe. No matter how safe you think you are, you are not safe enough. Personally, I always explore up before down, despite the amount of effort it usually takes to enter a passage high in the wall/ceiling.

[jkievlan]

Personally, I always explore up before down, despite the amount of effort it usually takes to enter a passage high in the wall/ceiling.

Yeah, it's much easier for mobs to drop down than up, so it's always safest to have any holes up top either blocked or lit up. Also, if you keep in mind that mobs can't jump up two blocks (except spiders) it can be really easy to block off downwards passages by just leaving a block or two in strategic spots.