In-game explanation for slabs preventing mob spawning?

[odemarken]

As per the subject. I never use slabs to prevent mob spawning (except for mine branches, where there is simply not enough space for mobs to spawn after slabbing), because I find it exploity and it messes with my suspension of disbelief. Evil things being born in the darkness makes perfect sense to me (even more so if it's really Steve's subconciousness creating the monsters), so lighting everything up does too. But slabbing is, like, WTF?
So, is their anything like official explanation within the game lore as to why this works?

[FlowerChild]

Best I can say is "legacy vanilla behavior". I don't like it, and there are a number of things like that I don't like in the game, but the damage to people's worlds would be too great if I started changing them at this late stage.

[Taleric]

You could use a texturepack where a warding symbol is planly seen scrawn into each half slab. As you have to craft and place each one it would fit :P
Regular blocks are just being replaced and those crafted that lack half-slabs are unable to be warded.

[Six]

You could use a texturepack where a warding symbol is planly seen scrawn into each half slab. As you have to craft and place each one it would fit :P
Regular blocks are just being replaced and those crafted that lack half-slabs are unable to be warded.

I suppose you could hamfist in an explanation that non-full blocks are so 'unworldly' in the cubic MC world that things can't deal with them.

[odranoel]

hmm good philosophical question. once ender specs were added and we were able to actually see the areas where mobs can spawn or not, i couldnt help but associate the in game "spawn feild" with the real world higgs field. (scientific theory that explains why things have mass, which was recently confirmed by the way) with the diffrence being that the spawn field only interacts with specific (evil?) creatures, where as the RL higgs field interacts with just about fuck all everything. so basically the spawn field seems to act as a medium which allows creatures to travle from one physical dimension to another. this is similar to the higgs field as it makes the creatures "tangible" with in steves dimension. (granted i know the higgs field comparison is a lil wonky in this case, but i think it fits with a lil bit of imagination :p, bear with me here.... )

now with that concept in mind, in theory (by theory i mean im just makein stuff up...) a higgs only has the power to interact with one particle. (again completly baseless assumption) so if a particle encounters a higgs that is already in use, it will jsut fly past it, until it finds an vacant higgs. so with that assumption we conclud that the higgs feild can be visualized much like a 3D checkerboard in which only one object may interact with each higgs (thus becoming solid) on this imaginary checkerboard. this also puts a size limit on the smallest and largest an object can naturally occure, as anything smaller or bigger then a biggs would not fit on the checkerboard. (newton & einstein loved playing checkers together while they were inventing all these theories)

now the smallest naturally occuring increment in the MC world is of course the cubic meter. scientists have searched far and wide for other forms of matter and distribution sizes in an effort to develop a mathmatical formula that would in essence allow them to read the mind of notch. but so far the cube is still the smallest division known about, all other sizes have so far only been obtained through artificial means. so we must assum that the spawn field must respect this size limit as well. thus a any space that is not the size of a full cubic meter, would not be able to interact with the spawn feild. so placeing an artifically created half slab into any space would throw off the eqilibrium needed in order for the spawn field and the MC world to properly interact with eachother.

Isnt science fun! :D

[odemarken]

Thanks guys, it looks like my feelings toward slabs will not change ;) The warding sign idea is neat, and makes sense, but (except being too much hassle) then it wouldn't feel right to use slabs for any other purpose. And the higgs theory gets extra points for being batshit insane, but won't cut it for me ;) Not complaining, I was just curious how other explain it to themselves.

[odranoel]

And the higgs theory gets extra points for being batshit insane

Ahh, good to know i havnt lost my touch :D

[PatriotBob]

And the higgs theory gets extra points for being batshit insane

Ahh, good to know i havnt lost my touch :D

Congrats on coupling "batshit insane" with actual modern physics.
Well, at least I enjoyed it. :P

[dawnraider]

I think maybe when the monsters warp in from other dimensions (ender specs allowing us to see locations they can warp in at), they can only manifest aligned to the grid, meaning that in order to warp in on a slab, that would mean being misaligned, therefore not allowing them to.

[odranoel]

they can only manifest aligned to the grid, meaning that in order to warp in on a slab, that would mean being misaligned, therefore not allowing them to.

exactly, this is what the 3D checkboard analogy was refering too. a notch boson needs to be aligned with a full cubic meter in all 4 dimensions in order for the transition to take place. half slabs thus ruining that naturaly occuring and nessisary alignment.

[odemarken]

So, 1 meter is Notch's length, like Planck's length in our universe? Dammit guys, stop it or you'll start to make sense!

[TheGatesofLogic]

hmm good philosophical question. once ender specs were added and we were able to actually see the areas where mobs can spawn or not, i couldnt help but associate the in game "spawn feild" with the real world higgs field. (scientific theory that explains why things have mass, which was recently confirmed by the way) with the diffrence being that the spawn field only interacts with specific (evil?) creatures, where as the RL higgs field interacts with just about fuck all everything. so basically the spawn field seems to act as a medium which allows creatures to travle from one physical dimension to another. this is similar to the higgs field as it makes the creatures "tangible" with in steves dimension. (granted i know the higgs field comparison is a lil wonky in this case, but i think it fits with a lil bit of imagination :p, bear with me here.... )

now with that concept in mind, in theory (by theory i mean im just makein stuff up...) a higgs only has the power to interact with one particle. (again completly baseless assumption) so if a particle encounters a higgs that is already in use, it will jsut fly past it, until it finds an vacant higgs. so with that assumption we conclud that the higgs feild can be visualized much like a 3D checkerboard in which only one object may interact with each higgs (thus becoming solid) on this imaginary checkerboard. this also puts a size limit on the smallest and largest an object can naturally occure, as anything smaller or bigger then a biggs would not fit on the checkerboard. (newton & einstein loved playing checkers together while they were inventing all these theories)

now the smallest naturally occuring increment in the MC world is of course the cubic meter. scientists have searched far and wide for other forms of matter and distribution sizes in an effort to develop a mathmatical formula that would in essence allow them to read the mind of notch. but so far the cube is still the smallest division known about, all other sizes have so far only been obtained through artificial means. so we must assum that the spawn field must respect this size limit as well. thus a any space that is not the size of a full cubic meter, would not be able to interact with the spawn feild. so placeing an artifically created half slab into any space would throw off the eqilibrium needed in order for the spawn field and the MC world to properly interact with eachother.

Isnt science fun! :D

Probably the most skewed explanation of the Higg's field i have ever heard bar fox news. taking parts of a theory and mashing them together like that is bound to get people confused, especially in regards to your 3D checkerboard thing which, and I mean no offense here as i understand where your taking it, I'm pretty sure you pulled out of your ass. A better scientific analogy would be the quantized wavelengths of electrons as they orbit a nucleus where the wavelength must needs conform to the quantized energy and form a "standing wave" of electron density. In other words, it can't have energy between 2 quantized amounts, but only those energies and discrete integer multiples of those energies.

[ExpHP]

*snip*

You're almost there, but the method is not quite sound. I mean, when you get down to things at a quantum level, you can't really talk about individual particles like that, as they're only an observable result of the underlying wavefunctions. We must find the wavefunction!

What we have here is simply the result of a physically bounded system contained in a 3 dimensional lattice potential.

Soiled State Physics ahead

Show

Allow us to define a wavefunction Ψ(x, y, z, t) representing a Monster Boson under the influence of the potential field V(x, y, z) produced by the blocks in the Minecraft world. By squaring Ψ, we get a function that tells us the probability of a monster being present at any given coordinate and time. Unfortunately, however, we can't do that because we don't know what Ψ is! We must solve for Ψ using the Schrödinger equation, a partial differential equation that describes how Ψ will change over time in response to the potential field V.

Solutions to the Schrödinger equation can either be continuous (meaning monsters can appear anywhere) or discrete (meaning monsters can only appear in specific locations). I may have disguised a lie somewhere in that statement. Anyways, the discreteness or continuity of Ψ depends on the structure of V and the monster's energy.

Monsters may only be observed to exist in places where V is less than their energy. And in general, if the position of something is bound (i.e. there is a maximum location beyond which it cannot exist), the solution to Ψ has discrete states. And this just so happens to be the case! The Minecraft world ceases to exist beyond a certain distance from Steve. In mathematical terms, V→∞ as x or z become too far away from Steve. The y coordinate is also bounded from 0 to 256. Ultimately, this is what causes the phenomenon where monsters may only spawn in discrete locations.

But why are these specific locations exactly 1 meter apart? Well! To solve this problem, we will take a leaf from the book of semiconductor physics! The regular spacing of the Minecraft world allows us to make a very convenient generalization; it can be thought of as a cubic lattice with side dimensions of 1 meter. This allows us to make a similar generalization about V... namely, that V(x + 1 meter) = V(x).

It turns out that when we solve the Schrödinger equation for such a V, the wavefunction Ψ shares a similar symmetry! Thus, the spawning spaces are exactly 1 meter apart.

Well, near Steve at least. The approximation stops working so well as we approach the edges, and mobs near the edge of the loaded world may, in fact, spawn halfway between blocks. Or in space. But the fluctuations in the monster field are so unstable out there that most Monsters either end up spawning in the Feywild, or they spawn already dead with their organs inside out and quickly despawn.

[odranoel]

lol guys, i mentioned a few times in my originol post that i was just pulling stuff outa my ass. einstien and newton for example never lived in the same time frame in order to meet eachother, much less play checkers together. (you also dont "invent" theories :p ) i had just smoked one and was feeling a lil nerdy/goofy so i figured id compile a half baked (literally) theory that just manages to hold itself together and sound somewhat legit long enough to make it about half way through the post befor the reader starts wondering wtf? im a big fan of satirical ridiculous science (best example being futurama, rife with purpously scientifically inaccurate things to make the more scientifically savvy smile by simultaniously activating the "that kinda makes sence" & "wtf" centers of the brain.)

with that being said.....

yes 1 meter is the notch length (plank length) of the MC world. underwhich all physics operate. this is also the reason water cannot flow throught cracks smaller then 1 meter. place a half slab or corner or anything that isnt cube size and youll see that the water will flow around it at precisly one cubes length at a time. it will hover above the single half slab by 1 half slab distance (1/2 +1/2 =1) and will flow around small objects without invading any empty space within the small objects specific space. water much like everything else needs a notch boson all to it self per notch length in order to properly flow. this also means water soure blocks are individual water atoms with 7 energy layers/states. each energy layer is capabale of exciting a notch boson adjacent to it and will cause another water atom to coalece in that adjacent notch boson (at 1 notch legnth away)

this is why water will flow upto seven blocks away, after seven the originol source block no longer has any energy layers/states to continue exciting notch bosons around it on the same horizontal plane. now what scientists are still trying to figure out is how gravity resets these energy states when the water flows down one block. this is a seeming violation of the coefficiency of energy. though we still do not understand the mechanism at work here, steves have been able to exploit this phenomenon with water wheels in order to generate unlimited energy. there is still much debate as to whether this energy is being created or syphoned from some yet undiscovered source (often termed, ender matter or ender energy, sometimes even flower power.)

Edit:to fix some goofyness.

[CreeperCannibal]

Much like the sidings, moulds and corners; slabs are.... unwholly. Monsters can't tell why, but they do not want to exist near these abominations.

[DNoved1]

Of course, mobs can spawn on slabs. Just not the right side up variety.

[odranoel]

they can only spawn on slabs whos surface is right below a vacant notch boson, not halfway through its own, already occupied (by the slab itself) boson.

im starting to get a lil dizzy...

[DNoved1]

So, even though slabs always have a surface right next to a vacant notch boson on at least one of their vertical sides, and mobs will only spawn when this vacant side is above the slab itself, we can infer that notch bosons have polarity.

Or something.

[odranoel]

we can infer that notch bosons have polarity. Or something.

Exactly! :D

[EtherealWrath]

Assuming monster spawning is an uncontrolled interdimensional travel , its most likely that gloom (even in a diluted form) acts as a catalyst for this phenomenon to occur. Gloom effects seem to vary with materials- some being inert (glass, mycelium) while others can focus and concentrate the effect (spawner, obsidian). But for most materials the difference is negligible.

Gloom itself is noted for its unique properties, seems to hold no physical mass or form, it cannot be directly picked up, broken, moved or destroyed yet it flows and fills a volume like fluid and holds a presence with those who have the misfortune to encounter it.

One of only two known ways to combat gloom is that it cannot exist inside a solid- placing a solid material removes gloom from that immediate volume. Therefore placing a full block removes more gloom than say a sign or slab.
But- alas- this presents its own problem, a physical barrier seems to cause eddies and swirls 'currents' in the Flow of gloom, enough to allow a physical manifestation through which to enter this realm, though not without becoming tainted by the darkness itself.

Partial blocks and inert materials cause more unstable Flow/smaller currents, or allow a more laminar Flow respectively.
Either way the phenomenon is unable to occur under these conditions.
Spawners focus this Flow- allowing the phenomena to occur more frequently within a smaller area.
While obsidian -once properly shaped- shows some very unique properties regarding the Flow.

Endermen seem able to detect the Flow and can control it to suit their own needs. Unfortunately very little is known about these mysterious people and even less about the Gloom itself.
An opportunity to fully understand this phenomenon is invaluable as it is impossible.

A second unlikely theory seems to relate to one's own resurrection. The worlds dotted with the remains of older civilisations, analysis of some materials found there suggests they had access to a remote dimension, and were able to exploit the materials found there [gunpowder->therefore end access, *temple spoiler items*] with much greater skill than we can. Perhaps they built monuments to their prowess, not realising the corrupting effect this has in large enough doses. When they did- it was too late; permanently binding them to this realm and twisting their nature into something monstrous.
This is what we are seeing- the resurrection and slaughter of an ancient race trapped in limbo by their own creation.

[dawnraider]

With that theory though, why do mobs spawn in the surface where there is no gloom?

[EtherealWrath]

With that theory though, why do mobs spawn in the surface where there is no gloom?

...its most likely that gloom (even in a diluted form) acts as a catalyst for this phenomenon to occur...

Assuming that darkness is merely a diluted from of the gloom.
We're still not sure if light actually removes the gloom, or merely negates it effects when bright enough. Either way Gloom and darkness are both known to twist the nature of certain fauna, among other things. The two are most certainly go hand in hand.

[FlowerChild]

I got to say I admire your dedication guys. I should just outright say "it means nothing...vanilla remnant" more often :)

[Gawonni]

I've got to say, control over darkness would certainly fit with the element of endermen, being the creators of the ultimate mob trap and all. I'd never really considered that. It'd certainly be an interesting change of pace to have one of the central mechanics turned against you.

I really like the polarized monster boson theory, but I propose the monster boson is really a vibrating string that exists in 11 dimensions, but these 7 other dimensions are boxed up so small Steve can't see them. Slabs, glass blocks, leaves, etc. are clearly 12-dimensional entities, and so the 11-dimensional monster strings can't attach to them, resulting in no monsters spawning. Therefore next time we see a tree, we should get on our knees and worship our higher-dimensional overlords for keeping us safe!

Except jungle spiders can spawn on leaves... OH GOD JUNGLE SPIDERS ARE 12 DIMENSIONAL BEINGS!! Well, we're screwed.

Now back to studying for my engineering midterms... :/

[jkievlan]

Soiled State Physics ahead

Show

Allow us to define a wavefunction Ψ(x, y, z, t) representing a Monster Boson under the influence of the potential field V(x, y, z) produced by the blocks in the Minecraft world. By squaring Ψ, we get a function that tells us the probability of a monster being present at any given coordinate and time. Unfortunately, however, we can't do that because we don't know what Ψ is! We must solve for Ψ using the Schrödinger equation, a partial differential equation that describes how Ψ will change over time in response to the potential field V.

Solutions to the Schrödinger equation can either be continuous (meaning monsters can appear anywhere) or discrete (meaning monsters can only appear in specific locations). I may have disguised a lie somewhere in that statement. Anyways, the discreteness or continuity of Ψ depends on the structure of V and the monster's energy.

Monsters may only be observed to exist in places where V is less than their energy. And in general, if the position of something is bound (i.e. there is a maximum location beyond which it cannot exist), the solution to Ψ has discrete states. And this just so happens to be the case! The Minecraft world ceases to exist beyond a certain distance from Steve. In mathematical terms, V→∞ as x or z become too far away from Steve. The y coordinate is also bounded from 0 to 256. Ultimately, this is what causes the phenomenon where monsters may only spawn in discrete locations.

But why are these specific locations exactly 1 meter apart? Well! To solve this problem, we will take a leaf from the book of semiconductor physics! The regular spacing of the Minecraft world allows us to make a very convenient generalization; it can be thought of as a cubic lattice with side dimensions of 1 meter. This allows us to make a similar generalization about V... namely, that V(x + 1 meter) = V(x).

It turns out that when we solve the Schrödinger equation for such a V, the wavefunction Ψ shares a similar symmetry! Thus, the spawning spaces are exactly 1 meter apart.

Well, near Steve at least. The approximation stops working so well as we approach the edges, and mobs near the edge of the loaded world may, in fact, spawn halfway between blocks. Or in space. But the fluctuations in the monster field are so unstable out there that most Monsters either end up spawning in the Feywild, or they spawn already dead with their organs inside out and quickly despawn.

I love you so much.