Flower's Dev Diary (Week Of March 18th)

[FlowerChild]

One thing has occurred to me though that I was going to create the specific circumstances to test but ran out of time this evening. What happens if a player loads this on an existing world in which only half a village is generated currently?

I thought of that too, but from what I've seen of the village (and temple) gen code, this won't happen. It looks like the whole village is generated in one shot.

I may be wrong, and correct me if you see anything that proves otherwise. Worst case scenario, you might get half my changes, and half the old method, which really shouldn't be too noticeable anyways given the subtlety of my changes. The building shapes etc all remain the same, with a few simple block substitutions, the very worst I could see happening is a half obsidian/half wool ankh or something.

[TGLumberjack]

I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, but has any thought been given to the effects that "Large Biome" maps vs. normal maps will have on HCH? I haven't gotten much of a chance to play MC/BTW at all in several months, but I've been following all the dev diaries and whatnot fairly closely for the past few months, and I don't think I've seen any mention of this. I personally like playing on large biome maps because I think it's more immersive, but it made finding wolves a project that occupied an entire evening, because I simply had to explore so much terrain in order to even find a forest! I love exploring so I'm not complaining, but I just wonder how that would affect the pacing of the early game with all the HCH related changes.

[JakeZKAM]

I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, but has any thought been given to the effects that "Large Biome" maps vs. normal maps will have on HCH? I haven't gotten much of a chance to play MC/BTW at all in several months, but I've been following all the dev diaries and whatnot fairly closely for the past few months, and I don't think I've seen any mention of this. I personally like playing on large biome maps because I think it's more immersive, but it made finding wolves a project that occupied an entire evening, because I simply had to explore so much terrain in order to even find a forest! I love exploring so I'm not complaining, but I just wonder how that would affect the pacing of the early game with all the HCH related changes.

FC has stated many times he doesn't balance play around large biomes. If you can't deal with the issues of exploration/finding specific resources then play on the standard mode of play.

[JakeZKAM]

*someone delete this, my tablet messed up and double posted >.<

[FlowerChild]

My general policy is that I design for default options only in order to better focus my efforts. Hence, stuff like large biomes is strictly "use at your own risk" and I make no attempt to preserve game balance if the user selects them.

[Shengji]

I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, but has any thought been given to the effects that "Large Biome" maps vs. normal maps will have on HCH? I haven't gotten much of a chance to play MC/BTW at all in several months, but I've been following all the dev diaries and whatnot fairly closely for the past few months, and I don't think I've seen any mention of this. I personally like playing on large biome maps because I think it's more immersive, but it made finding wolves a project that occupied an entire evening, because I simply had to explore so much terrain in order to even find a forest! I love exploring so I'm not complaining, but I just wonder how that would affect the pacing of the early game with all the HCH related changes.

I personally use large biomes in my world, compared to normal it does slow your progress significantly. The major issues are as follows:

1) You run a huge risk of not finding a ruined village as the chances are rather high they will spawn outside the radius

2) This (obviously) means you will likely go a long time without finding a village at all, and finding the rarer villages could take weeks of real time.

3) Ditto wolves

4) Hardcore Spawn will likely place you back in the biome your home is in or very close to it. This makes it more difficult to find your way home as biome boundaries are massive navigational aids. Also you are very unlikely to be able to see your home from the boundary, so you will be forced to navigate the interior.

Basically it makes the mod universally more frustratingly difficult, ask yourself if the benefits, which lets be honest mostly boil down to aesthetics are worth it. Personally I enjoy the play it encourages and what most people would describe as a grind or frustrating leads to emergent gameplay, but I am not the average.

[mc_dunedin]

Hmmm...although the trees and water falls do at least make me wonder. Anyone know if those show up in the same places in different instances of the same vanilla seed? If not, it may be a cause for concern.

A couple of months back i recreated a map with the same seed and one very prominent waterfall was gone. This was using BTW(current version at the time) and large biomes, also it was likely ~ 1000 blocks away from spawn. I think the odd waterfall moving its position is not something your changes to worldgen induced. Will do more testing this evening.

[Thalarctia]

Hmmm...although the trees and water falls do at least make me wonder. Anyone know if those show up in the same places in different instances of the same vanilla seed? If not, it may be a cause for concern.

A couple of months back i recreated a map with the same seed and one very prominent waterfall was gone. This was using BTW(current version at the time) and large biomes, also it was likely ~ 1000 blocks away from spawn. I think the odd waterfall moving its position is not something your changes to worldgen induced. Will do more testing this evening.

The fact that you are using Large Biomes invalidates the test. Since the mod is only being balanced for default options, any test made with a non-default option is just confusing the issue.

[ion]

i was able to pinpoint the missing waterfalls bug, as it's only vanilla related. it happens if a map was generated before mojang added the new scrolls as loot in dungeons. so dungeons chunks may be a bit different in 1.4.7 that they were before the addition of scrolls.
about trees i still need to do more testing as i'm not really sure about them. ( something strange in swamp biomes)

Worst case scenario, you might get half my changes, and half the old method, which really shouldn't be too noticeable anyways given the subtlety of my changes. The building shapes etc all remain the same, with a few simple block substitutions, the very worst I could see happening is a half obsidian/half wool ankh or something.

for half generated villages this is what happens:

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this was done in game slowly moving towards the village.
if you're using an external program to delete chunks from a fully generated village this is the beast that regenerates

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[Habsnorre]

I didn't test an existing save yet, but I did come across something funny in a newly created world.

I found a desert temple with a zombie spawner next to the bottom of the shaft. The pressure plate, powder kegs and chest were unharmed. Don't know if this has anything to do with new world gen, but might be helpful info.

Also, while I love the new look of the desert temple, I feel like the obsidian on the surface might be overpowered. Combined from the desert temple and the spawner I got these valuables:
- 3 diamonds
- 2 emeralds
- 12 iron ingots
- 8 gold ingots
- 2 buckets
- 1 saddle
- 1 bread
(- heavily damaged iron helmet, chestplate and leggins from a zombie)

I came across this temple day 3. I hadn't mined yet, but I now I dont have to anymore. The Temple gives me a free portal and the spawner the equivalent of 1,5 stacks of iron ore (plus another 2 stacks when I get a crucible). I was very lucky with this seed, but the free portal will go for every temple with 3+ diamonds in it.
Personally I like this "luck/exploring" factor, but considering you want the early game to be more challenging; the obsidian in temples is not helping.

[Gabecraft1234]

I think that type of massive loot is rare enough that the occasional bonanza is not a problem. It just makes finding temples that much more exciting. A good number of the temples that I came across had nothing but rotten flesh and bones so reducing their loot would render them meaningless to explore.

[Calo290]

Personally I like this "luck/exploring" factor, but considering you want the early game to be more challenging; the obsidian in temples is not helping.

With the sheer number of surface lava lakes, I don't particularly find obsidian a hard-to-obtain substance. Obsidian is one of the "rare" (because it's a pain to dig up) building materials that FC could have used to make Temples unique without using an extremely valuable block like lapiz or something.

[MrPlatypus]

I can agree that I have never really had a problem obtaining obsidian. For me the new desert temples are more of a convenience than a huge find that devalues obsidian.

[FlowerChild]

Yeah, I don't thing that obsidian change impacts balance in any meaningful way.

The chest contents are another story, but that's an issue I'm already aware of, and not one I caused ;)

[DaveYanakov]

If you dig down another 20 meters or so from the treasure room you can get free obsidian from there, too. I found and looted 11 temples while testing seeds and out of those only two had more than one diamond, several had none. Usually it was around 5-7 gold, a handful of iron ingots and lots of bones and flesh. Always a nice bonus but keep in mind that to get it you have to enter what is essentially a low grade mob trap in the middle of the desert where there is no ambient food and pick your way down into a room where the exact surprise I had expected the first time I broke into one of these tombs sits waiting for you to screw up. For the possibility of getting an early diamond pick.

If you use a seed that you know has those diamonds, you're not exploring anyway. I love the new changes as temples have gone from 'oh hey, I need to go loot that on my way home to 'I need to build a base camp and tackle this thing right'.

[Shengji]

Heh, it's possible to reach the nether on day 1 with a deep enough lava pool and ether a bucket or a higher water source than the pool!

What good early access is without the appropriate equipment is debatable, I guess getting 9 netherrack is easy enough and can give you a boost with your first cauldron, a decent enough reward for clever play?

[Habsnorre]

Guess I'm overreacting. I'll take this one as being way too lucky xD

[Breathesleep]

Heh, it's possible to reach the nether on day 1 with a deep enough lava pool and ether a bucket or a higher water source than the pool!

What good early access is without the appropriate equipment is debatable, I guess getting 9 netherrack is easy enough and can give you a boost with your first cauldron, a decent enough reward for clever play?

The one thing I missed after hardcore buckets came about was being able to cast a portal, building a frame out of dirt and poring the lava in you know, all to save a three-diamond expenditure.
That is, until the first time I figured out it was still possible if you find a nice deep lava pool. Granted, all in all it took much longer than just mining the obsidian, but it was a very satisfying experience. I almost wished at the time that it was the only way to reach the nether, because it truly felt like I'd performed a dark ritual.
But yeah, with everything that's changed sense then, going to the nether without the proper gear is suicidal. My last try planted me square on a nether fortress, and I nope'd right back out 'till I could scrounge together enough food and iron.

[SterlingRed]

Finally found a new pyramid. The subtle changes are exactly what I expected, and 100% appropriate. I actually expected it to be this way when I first entered one in vanilla and was horribly disappointed when it wasn't. Also the obsidian replacing wool feels and looks like it belongs. I like it :)

[Mud]

Three pyramids and I seem to be utterly oblivious to the "subtle change" everyone is talking about...

[SterlingRed]

Three pyramids and I seem to be utterly oblivious to the "subtle change" everyone is talking about...

Means he did a good job as it feels as if that's the way it should be, thus you don't realize anything has changed. I only noticed it because I was looking for it specifically as it was something that had bothered me about vanilla pyramids before.

[Gormador]

Means he did a good job as it feels as if that's the way it should be, thus you don't realize anything has changed. I only noticed it because I was looking for it specifically as it was something that had bothered me about vanilla pyramids before.

I haven't tested it (I can't), but the first thing I thought of when I saw that line of the change log was about a change of a key material, in one place, where it matters the most. Am I right ?
(And yeah, it's hard to give a description without naming it. If it's too obvious, feel free to edit.)

[Habsnorre]

Three pyramids and I seem to be utterly oblivious to the "subtle change" everyone is talking about...

Well if you really want to know:

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The vanilla stone pressure plate has been changed to a wooden pressure plate. Meaning that the kegs will also explode if an item falls on it.

[BrainNoMore]

Three pyramids and I seem to be utterly oblivious to the "subtle change" everyone is talking about...

Well if you really want to know:

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The vanilla stone pressure plate has been changed to a wooden pressure plate. Meaning that the kegs will also explode if an item falls on it.

This made me lol for real - I always assumed that's how it works and took all required precautions.

[Mud]

Three pyramids and I seem to be utterly oblivious to the "subtle change" everyone is talking about...

Well if you really want to know:

Spoiler

Show

The vanilla stone pressure plate has been changed to a wooden pressure plate. Meaning that the kegs will also explode if an item falls on it.

Spoiler

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Ok I did notice that, but I wasn't aware of the difference in effects of wooden and stone pressure plates so I didn't give it much thought. Very cool.