What is BWF?

[FlowerChild]

Well, here's some small development:

http://ezekielelin.com/websiteoffline.php?s=bwf

Not being released for now by request from FlowerChild

Although I never made such a request no matter how many times they tried to weasel one out of me :)

It does however lend some credibility to the claims of the person I was just talking to about this that they were actually involved in this whole debacle.

[BinoAl]

Well, here's some small development:

http://ezekielelin.com/websiteoffline.php?s=bwf

Although I never made such a request no matter how many times they tried to weasel one out of me :)

It does however lend some credibility to the claims of the person I was just talking to about this that they were actually involved in this whole debacle.

Although it's not a total victory yet, we can celebrate :)

[Ulfengaard]

YESsss! This is a good start. Small victory, but important. Cheers, everybody.

[FlowerChild]

Although it's not a total victory yet, we can celebrate :)

I'd advise not counting any chickens just yet. There's a few things to note about the above statement:

-They're still trying to make me look complicit in this process with the "by request from" bullshit, as opposed to simply saying something like "out of respect to" which would acknowledge their own fault here.

-"for now". I think the implicit threat in that is quite clear.

And obviously of course, the guy really responsible for all this, LexManos, has yet to be held in any way accountable for his actions.

So yeah, like I said...don't count your chickens.

Primarily, it acts as some verification to me that I'm now speaking with the correct people, but beyond that, it doesn't say very much at all, and what it does say is done in a rather self-justifying "let's just wash our hands of this" way.

[Mr_Hosed]

I was thinking some more on this... much like everyone else here, and I gotta ask, what did these guy's think they'd actually achieve by doing this?

FlowerChild has built a strong community of supporters behind him, not just "giveme-kiddies", so a BWF wouldn't see play from the core fanbase. Inaddition, BTW is meant to be played alone so BWF isn't just copying work, but degrading it. And lastly, "giveme-kiddies" are like rats on a boat, once it starts to sink they quickly jump ship and most of the Forge fans are "giveme-kiddies".

I know people have tried to answer these points earlier in the thread, but none of it really makes sense unless the central driving force just wanted to piss on FC's parade so badly that he/she didn't care about the consequences to themselves (Or were so deluded by arrangance to not realize there were consequences)...

I'm glad to see we've educated enough of the masses on the real issues with this (Not just the basic immoral act of ripping off someone's creative work wholesale, but the rest that's been mentioned on this thread) that the battle isn't as steep of a hill as it first seemed.

[BlackCat]

You might want to read the logs on the IRC. That might clear things up a bit, I'll post them if Warr can't.

Edit: I'm not going to post them, people can ask warr if they want them.

[FlowerChild]

I know people have tried to answer these points earlier in the thread, but none of it really makes sense unless the central driving force just wanted to piss on FC's parade so badly that he/she didn't care about the consequences to themselves (Or were so deluded by arrangance to not realize there were consequences)...

a) I think they severely overestimated how much the MC community hates me. Sure...I've got a ton of hate out there for me, but as you said, it's largely down to the 14 year olds, NOT the mature and intelligent individuals that tend to like to play BTW (largely because the mod is designed specifically for mature and intelligent individuals).

b) I think they severely underestimated just how much of a stink I would, or was capable of really raising over this. I really don't think everyone, or even most people, are this determined, capable, passionate, and more than a tad nuts under such circumstances. You can see this quite clearly in their "there's not a damn thing you can do about this" attitude at the start of this.

c) I really do think that Lex's position as head of the Forge has gone to his head and inflated his ego to epic proportions, and thus he overestimated his own support. Of course, this is doubly ironic as it sounds eerily reminiscent of some of what their camp was saying about me.

So yes, it was entirely ill-conceived and morally bankrupt, but it does make some sense in the above context.

[FlowerChild]

You might want to read the logs on the IRC. That might clear things up a bit, I'll post them if Warr can't.

Edit: I'm not going to post them, people can ask warr if they want them.

I don't really want to go through the logs, but if you can summarize what you mean, I wouldn't mind hearing it.

[BinoAl]

I don't really want to go through the logs, but if you can summarize what you mean, I wouldn't mind hearing it.

Here's the log:
http://pastebin.com/SMAxYBRU
Basically, what supposedly happened is that the guy making BWF didn't know it was against your wishes, and so after learning of your feelings toward it, he stopped. It's very suspect, tbh.

[BlackCat]

Here is a shortened version of the logs: http://pastebin.com/bkHEaVX0

That contains the most important parts of the logs, binoai posted the full logs in the post above.

[FlowerChild]

I don't really want to go through the logs, but if you can summarize what you mean, I wouldn't mind hearing it.

Here's the log:
http://pastebin.com/SMAxYBRU
Basically, what supposedly happened is that the guy making BWF didn't know it was against your wishes, and so after learning of your feelings toward it, he stopped. It's very suspect, tbh.

Ok Gil, this message is for you, since you're obviously trying to now whitewash this and pretend like you guys are a couple of innocents, in clear contrast to what you've told me over PM:

Make a public statement about what really happened here and what the involvement was of various individuals, or I will unfortunately feel it necessary to set the record straight by posting screen-grabs of our PM conversation to counter the self-justification and blame transference rampage you are on now.

Not cool man. You approached me in the apparent spirit of making amends over this, and I was careful to keep quiet about your involvement in it as a result as per your requests to not get further implicated in the mess that resulted.

As I said: Stop it. Man up and take responsibility for your own actions in this. You've said that you and your friend built the gun and handed it to someone very specific who then decided to use it against me. Trying to feign innocence now because they "inexplicably" went and pulled the trigger on that gun is utter nonsense.

[Azdoine]

I miss the good old days when MC modding didn't feel like cold-war industial espionage.

[muggsbud]

I find it hard to believe that the guy who was building this thing doesn't keep up with the forums in any way. Someone involved enough to go to the lengths of writing a fairly large amount of code is EXTREMELY likely to be on the forums enough to have heard this shit storm long ago.

On top of that Lex and others have been in contact with the author, if they aren't. (i personally don't think it is lex, but at the same time can't rule out the possibility) Surely one of them would have mentioned it to them long ago.

tl;dr: i don't believe it for a second that the guy "didn't know."

[FlowerChild]

And one other thing here: there's no "lynch mob" that has gone or will go against your comrade in this.

From the very beginning, I've been focusing this on one person: LexManos. He is the responsible party here as your story clearly lays out.

People thought I was downright nuts at the beginning making this about him, but I always stood by it and actively worked to discourage speculation about the identity of 'FlowerAdult'. I bear him no ill will and I sincerely doubt the community here does either. I'm unaware of absolutely anyone going after him personally.

BUT, you guys do definitely share your part of the responsibility here, and if you're truly not involved manning up and stating what really happened is simply the right thing to do in order to help repair the damage you unintentionally caused in the process.

[haphazardnuke]

I agree in that "oh, he was isolated and didn't know FC wanted it shut down" is really suspicious... I for one can't stay off the forums more than a day at best xD

Still, as FC said, no ill will towards the guy. Can't fault the ground troops for the general's orders.

Also, I had to laugh when "greenwolf13" was 'delighted at being called a shitstain'. Not caring what others call you, now that's a good way to go through life :)

[Sarudak]

I believe it's plausible. The vast majority of BTW players have never registered on the forums so I wouldn't be surprised if there's some pretty serious players/fans who just don't frequent the forums.

[FlowerChild]

I believe it's plausible. The vast majority of BTW players have never registered on the forums so I wouldn't be surprised if there's some pretty serious players/fans who just don't frequent the forums.

Again, it just doesn't matter either way. The focus in all this has always been LexManos as the responsible party, not "FlowerAdult" (which is supposedly even a name Lex came up with himself to attach to the author...IF Gil's story is to be believed).

[nukularpower]

This is a bit off the current topic, but it's something that's been on my mind since this mess started, and I gotta get it off my chest. I've always had a bit of a secret hope that BTW might one day naturally return to Forge. Obviously, it's been a long shot and not something I would ever expect to see really happen. But, with RP2 turning into vaporware and the recent development troubles leading to RTH - block ID issues in particular - it felt like, if it was ever going to happen, the time was as right as it was ever going to be.

The reason I'm bringing this up now is that shortly after this mess started Flowerchild made a post on MCF that really got to me. I don't have the link now and am not about to wade through all the BWF threads to find it, so to try and summarize, it said something like "I have actually seriously considered returning to the Forge recently, with Eloraam being gone [and so on]. But obviously that is out the window now. [or something like that]"

So, in short, Lex, in trying to force BTW into Forge in this asinine way, ended up pushing it out the door in the worst way possible - when it might (and I do mean a big might) have come back on its own, given time. While it's not worth getting worked up over "maybes" and such, that is a pretty shitty loss for the MC community as a whole, IMO, and tbh, reading that post that I referred to by FC nearly brought a tear to my eye. Sad times.

[Ceunon]

Not sure if you guys are aware, but they updated the site and added the full conversation between Gil and FC through PMs to it. I'm currently reading it, but I obviously won't comment or say anything about it if you object, FC.

They also changed the site message to "-out of respect to FlowerChild".

[AddyBaha]

-They're still trying to make me look complicit in this process with the "by request from" bullshit, as opposed to simply saying something like "out of respect to" which would acknowledge their own fault here.

-"for now". I think the implicit threat in that is quite clear.

They actually changed it to
"Release indefinitely delayed out of respect for FlowerChild"

could it be that they're reading these forums and react to it?

[Sarudak]

I'm sure Gil was reading the forums. Anyway it sounds like this whole thing is more or less resolved which is good. I kinda feel sorry for this Floweradult guy. Sounds like he got screwed over.

[mkolpnji]

LexManos is still stating that he has no involvement with BWF at all.
http://pastebin.com/pUXYm7r4
(I personally think this is complete BS, considering that I see no reason for Gilberekke to lie about what he said, nor do I trust the fact that somehow an "unofficial" BWF website for no reason at all.)

EDIT: Well apparently Gil was lied to about various things, so now things are even more complicated. :/

[SterlingRed]

b) I think they severely underestimated just how much of a stink I would, or was capable of really raising over this. I really don't think everyone, or even most people, are this determined, capable, passionate, and more than a tad nuts under such circumstances. You can see this quite clearly in their "there's not a damn thing you can do about this" attitude at the start of this.

I think they also seriously underestimated the intelligence of the active community you've fostered here and their willingness to support and stand with you on this issue. You're not alone man.

I'm sorry I wasn't able to be more active on mcf and irc, real life excuses and all. I just spent a good two hours putting my lurking to good use to catch up on everything related to this on here, mcf, and various other sources google turned up. It does indeed look like you're speaking to the correct people now about all this. But a few things still feel seriously fishy to me. The standouts would be the placement of bwf's homepage being hosted by a largely unknown minecraft fan with specific references to redpower. As well as slowpoke seeming to know much more than he's letting on in a large majority of his posts in various places implying he's connected to someone near, or at the source. Gil's request for specific 'cease and desist' notice is eerily similar to slowpoke's request as well.
(No lynch mobs guys, just pointing out things that don't seem to add up to me. A lot of this very well could be coincidence or turn out to be a non-issue.)

Edit: Additional note on the website: It seems to me like the website host (whether tied to bwf's author or not) was setup or even told to make it public. Conspiracy Theory: Someone connected to forge got wind of some guy trying to make btw compatible with forge. Forge leaders got ahold of it, took over the project, made the original author a scapegoat (i think this person may be rather young and impressionable), and then pushed the whole thing public in an attempt to create a full court press to push FC around and disrupt his mod and community with Lex and others as the leaders. /Conspiracy.

[FlowerChild]

I'm sure Gil was reading the forums. Anyway it sounds like this whole thing is more or less resolved which is good. I kinda feel sorry for this Floweradult guy. Sounds like he got screwed over.

It is far from resolved. As Gil just said on IRC, he was duped in all this. The person he thought was FA isn't actually FA.

Seriously...it's become some retarded and elaborate tin-foil hat wearing nonsense, and it looks like it's far from over.

Best guess: Lex and co. put out this whole theory to try and derail my campaign here so they could continue working on BWF unmolested.

Regardless, in the process, the guy is looking more and more transparently scummy, and thus our best help for resolving this still lays where it always did: with the modders of the Forge community that may no longer want to put up with his BS as he digs his own hole deeper and deeper.

[finite8]

So.... is it beer'o'clock yet on this matter?