Better With 'Gators [Discussion]

[Foxy Boxes]

Okay, first of all I thought I should announce that I've not modded minecraft before so my knowledge will be drawn from tutorials and analysis of the code itself as I go.

There'd be two distinct, but related parts to BWG, all revolving around a new biome-specific mob, Alligators (or Gators for short).

The first part, the Gators themselves, would spawn only in swamps upon sand, dirt, grass or clay. Gators will attack any nearby mobs, with players being a first priority. Gators will breed in one of two ways (to be decided); either when they eat meat, or upon a full moon. Either way, this results in Gators breeding naturaly, either from picking up fallen pork/beef or from it being a full moon. Gators would be saddle-able, but control will be limited; Whilst riding a Gator, it will not attack you, but will still attack other players and mobs. At any time (saddled or unsaddled, riderless or not) Gators will follow meat over attacking any none-player mob, unless attacked. This allows ridden Gators to effectively be guided by throwing meat in the direction you want to travel. It also allows for "Gator Cavalry", as once the enemy player is in attack range, the Gator will choose to attack it over the meat.

The second part is Gator Hide. having developed around witches, Gator Hide is resistant to magic and thus, unenchantable. Instead, when soaked in an unstoked Cauldron with a Soul Urn and a potion, armour crafted from Gator Hide may take on aspects of that potion, depending on both the potion and armour piece. For instance, Gator Boots, soaked with a Strength Potion, would give a jump boost, where as a Gator Chestplate soaked in the same potion would give a strength boost.

Now for the discussion part, what are yours thoughts on the idea, and on how hard it may be to pull off.

[8bitBob]

Huh, potion-soaked armor. I really like it as a concept, but I think with the current state of potions it would be a little clunky. For one, potions are really inexpensive and relatively easy to require compared to most BTW tech. They can't be auto crafted, so the production of them is really tedious. And what would you do with the glass bottles? Are they simply melted down into nothingness? Because that doesn't really seem realistic in a cauldron, nor does pulling out the empty glass bottles from it.

I'm no coder so I can't tell you how much work modeling and texturing would be, but a bare bones Potions+New leather system seems like it would be relatively easy to implement. That being said, I think that if you want this add-on to have more depth then you'll want to do an overhaul of both the potion making and leather soaking.

But again, I really like the idea and would love to see anything you'd come up with.

[Foxy Boxes]

Okay, now that I've got my computer back (the dog had chewed through the power lead), I've fleshed out the OP more.

To the above poster (8bitBob) I'll try to summarise your points and then respond to each.
> Potions are cheap to craft, but can't be automated.
- Potions may be cheap yes, but Gator armour has the advantage of not wearing off. However, to compensate, Gator armour requires a whole Soul Urn per piece. It's also only as/slightly more durable than leather as well. As for potions not being automated, even with BTW, mostly only basic materials can be automated, things like armour itself has to be forged manually.
> What happens to the glass bottles?
- The high levels of magic try to break down the bottle and incorperate it in the enchantment, but fail because of the much stronger presence of the potion within.

[8bitBob]

Potions may be cheap yes, but Gator armour has the advantage of not wearing off. However, to compensate, Gator armour requires a whole Soul Urn per piece.

What I meant to imply is that getting the leather enchants would be too easy, not that potions are a better option. I for one rarely carry them because it's a hassle. Soul Urns aren't actually terribly expensive when you get farther into the tech tree. Consider that a full set would only be a block of clay and half a stack of netherrack. That's pretty cheap for something that could, say, increase your damage with a Strength potion, or render you invisible, or give you regeneration.

Now inexpensive materials aren't necessarily a bad thing as long as it's offset by other factors, like making the manufacturing difficult, etc. I just feel that there's very little challenge (and thus nothing really interesting to do) in getting the potion enchants once you have the leather.

It's also only as/slightly more durable than leather as well.

I'd recommend play testing the durability. Considering leather armor breaks if you breath on it it may become more convenient to just use the potions then constantly swap out armor.

As for potions not being automated, even with BTW, mostly only basic materials can be automated, things like armour itself has to be forged manually.

Fair enough, though potion making is particularly dull.


I do like the idea of different pieces giving different effects from the same potion, as it both prevents effect stacking while making it more diverse. What do you plan to do about potion ranks? Because there's no duration there's obviously no incentive to use a longer lasting rank one.

[Mason11987]

I'm definitely intrigued by the idea of there being SOME easier way to use my massive collection of speed potion making materials to make me move around faster without having to constantly drink potions. An interesting armor could be just what I need. It should be weak enough so that I wouldn't use it when caving as I have my steel armor for that.

[ziyakaz]

If there were one mob I would like to see added to the game, it would be alligators.

I like the "Gator Cavalry" concept. It seems like it could really add something to gameplay, and your ideas for the mechanics of it seem reasonable -- if you want to convince the gator to go long distances, you'll need to be well-stocked on meat. It also gives another player a chance to divert your efforts in chasing them by spamming meat around the gator and finding higher ground.

As for breeding, I am not sure I see the appeal of having them do it on a full moon. If you want them to breed without player interaction, it may be better to allow them to breed after they've killed another animal and consumed its meat in addition to when it has consumed meat dropped in front of it by the player. This would be more consistent with the way things are done in the BTW mod, I think.

I am also struggling with the Gator Hide armor. What does it add to gameplay, really? It's simple enough to carry potions around, and there is better armor available that you can enchant, so you can have the effects of the armor enchantment and the effects of potions you consume.

I think that Gator Hide could make for an interesting new material, but I don't see the appeal in using it for armor. Perhaps it has properties (due to exposure to witch magic in swamp biomes) that make it suitable for something like an alchemical bag. I don't have any well-formed ideas in that regard, but it may be something else to consider. Then again, you may be really attached to the armor idea. In that case, more power to you in actually creating a mod. :)

If you'd like, I would really be interested in working with you on this. I'm a (fairly new) programmer, and I've been wanting to try my hand at modding. I understand why you may prefer to do this alone, but I thought I'd offer in case you'd like someone to learn along with you.

One question: Would this be for SSP only?

[Mason11987]

One question: Would this be for SSP only?

At the moment, due to the lack of a real MP Modloader, all BTW addons are SSP only.

[ziyakaz]

At the moment, due to the lack of a real MP Modloader, all BTW addons are SSP only.

Not all of them.

[Foxy Boxes]

At the moment, due to the lack of a real MP Modloader, all BTW addons are SSP only.

Would a SSP mod effect LAN play?

[Mason11987]

At the moment, due to the lack of a real MP Modloader, all BTW addons are SSP only.

Not all of them.

I stand corrected and forgot about this one. Although this isn't exactly an "addon" in the sense that all of the other BTW addons have been. It's more of a patch. This isn't exactly a good example for someone just getting into modding and coding, as it's quite complicated. I'd just go SSP until FC solidifies any work on supporting SMP addons.

At the moment, due to the lack of a real MP Modloader, all BTW addons are SSP only.

Would a SSP mod effect LAN play?

I'm not sure how exactly it would be handled. There are several mod makers in this forum though supporting SSP mods. I'm sure they could tell you how it handles in LAN if at all.

[Benanov]

At the moment, due to the lack of a real MP Modloader, all BTW addons are SSP only.

Not all of them.

I stand corrected and forgot about this one. Although this isn't exactly an "addon" in the sense that all of the other BTW addons have been. It's more of a patch. This isn't exactly a good example for someone just getting into modding and coding, as it's quite complicated. I'd just go SSP until FC solidifies any work on supporting SMP addons.

It's only a "patch" because part of the design goals state that the only person having to apply the mod is the server operator, people running standard BTW can connect, and if it's removed the world doesn't crash. That rules out things like new block ids, new items, new entities, etc.

It would be possible for a fork of BWR (read the license - you CAN fork it) to support additional block ID's and things like that, but you'd have to keep it in sync with a more traditional "SSP" mod, much like FC himself has done. You'll notice that the BTW zip has "minecraft-server-jar" and "minecraft-jar" folders. Even with the automatable build system BWR has it'd still be a very huge undertaking.

As for the original post, I'd like to see more mob types, for sure - and alligators might be better calvary than pigs (because pigs are AWFUL mounts)

I'm not sure alligator leather is that much different from cow leather game-mechanics wise, and "two sources for the same item" breaks FC's tech tree.

[Foxy Boxes]

I'm not sure alligator leather is that much different from cow leather game-mechanics wise, and "two sources for the same item" breaks FC's tech tree.

Not really, Alligator Hide would be more for armour, as it wouldn't rend down into glue or cut up into strips meaning for a decent glue farm, you still need a cow supply.