Horace and Pete

This forum is for anything that doesn't specifically have to do with Better Than Wolves
Post Reply
User avatar
Gilberreke
Posts: 4486
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:12 pm
Location: Belgium

Horace and Pete

Post by Gilberreke »

You guys have to see this series! So the famous comedian Louis CK went "fuck it, I want to do a show, but no network is going to let me do this my way, so I'm funding this myself". It's a dark show that talks about things we're not supposed to see on TV, like mental illness, the sex life of old people, doing bad things without a silver lining, just being an asshole, conversations about bipartisan politics, etc.

Episodes vary in length as Louis sees fit, there's a vision to how it's shot, there's no laugh track, there's barely any music. It's just people in a bar, having conversations. Oh and the actors! Man. Louis CK, Alan Alda, Steve Buscemi, Jessica Lange, etc.

I wasn't sold on the pilot, but it was such a novel, refreshing vision, there was swearing (I think I've counted the word "cunt" like 5 times by now), no laugh track, etc, that I had to see it through. Then I watched episode 3 and holy shit, it just jumped right to the top of my list straight away. After seeing episode 3, this is now my favorite series of the decade for sure.

You can buy the episodes on Louis' website, but from what I've heard, it's also coming to Hulu at some point. $31 for a season, completely worth it imo.
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
User avatar
Gilberreke
Posts: 4486
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:12 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by Gilberreke »

Just finished watching. Last episode is brilliant. You guys are missing out.
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
User avatar
FlowerChild
Site Admin
Posts: 18753
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by FlowerChild »

Gilberreke wrote:Just finished watching. Last episode is brilliant. You guys are missing out.
I really love Louis CK's standup man, and binged watched his entire series "Louis" in a couple of weeks awhile back. He's a bit of a controversial figure right now however given some US election fallout, so you may have a hard time promoting the series at present. I think he managed to piss off just about everyone on the entire political spectrum :)
User avatar
Gilberreke
Posts: 4486
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:12 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by Gilberreke »

FlowerChild wrote:I really love Louis CK's standup man, and binged watched his entire series "Louis" in a couple of weeks awhile back. He's a bit of a controversial figure right now however given some US election fallout, so you may have a hard time promoting the series at present. I think he managed to piss off just about everyone on the entire political spectrum :)
Hah. I missed that entirely. Still though, Horace and Pete is about the least conformist piece of TV I've seen in my life, it warrants defending the guy a little :)

Disclaimer: don't watch if you're in a bad mood. It's as grim as things get.
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
User avatar
Wafflewaffle
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:17 pm
Location: Carnaval land

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by Wafflewaffle »

@Gil Dude Steve Buscemi!! He's my magic bullet, im so in.

Edit: Alright im 3 episodes in, fucking officially hooked. It has like... real people in it. Shitty, aweful, broken people, but they dont feel like characters they feel... real. Good shit Gil thx a bunch.
Oh great, now nothing can stop the inbred train

Paradox Interactive:
CHOO CHOO!
User avatar
Gilberreke
Posts: 4486
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:12 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by Gilberreke »

Wafflewaffle wrote:@Gil Dude Steve Buscemi!! He's my magic bullet, im so in.

Edit: Alright im 3 episodes in, fucking officially hooked. It has like... real people in it. Shitty, aweful, broken people, but they dont feel like characters they feel... real. Good shit Gil thx a bunch.
Episode 3 will do that. Instantly hooked from that point onwards.
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
User avatar
FlowerChild
Site Admin
Posts: 18753
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by FlowerChild »

Finally started watching this, this past week, and man, is it ever awesome. Still got a couple of episodes to the end, but it's already blown me away several times.

Without spoilers, particular loved the episodes about "doing bad things" where he's talking to his ex wife, and the extended conversation after a one night stand about who the people involved actually are. Those were both incredibly human, as is the entire series. I love the fact that the characters often times behave in an utterly despicable fashion, but it always still manages to seem relatable.

I finally got over my Louis C.K. allergy a couple of weeks ago when I saw him on Saturday Night Live and was reminded of how much I love his comedy. I would say Horace And Pete is much more of a drama than a comedy, with humor being only one of the many emotions involved.

I've never seen anything quite like it.

EDIT: Hey, turns out episode 3 that you guys were going about was the one with the ex-wife I mentioned above. Yeah... super powerful :)
User avatar
Wafflewaffle
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:17 pm
Location: Carnaval land

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by Wafflewaffle »

FlowerChild wrote:Yeah... super powerful :)
It was so entretaining to hear the story that i almost forgot Louis was part of the show. Actually got a little startled when he showed up.

I need to finish It, but there is just so much good tv this next couple of months... Between Fargo S3, Better Call Saul S3 and GoT coming back. It's been a good year for entretainement.
Oh great, now nothing can stop the inbred train

Paradox Interactive:
CHOO CHOO!
User avatar
FlowerChild
Site Admin
Posts: 18753
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by FlowerChild »

Just finished it.
Spoiler
Show
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!
Was excellent :)
User avatar
Gilberreke
Posts: 4486
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:12 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by Gilberreke »

I'm glad I got you guys to watch it :)

I really like some of Louis' stand-up, but I never really got into his series. Then I saw an interview where he talks about this one and mentions Steve Buscemi and Jessica Lange and I immediately thought "this is the one, the one for me". And boy, it was.

BTW, for those wondering why it's such a weird beast, it was based on these old theater plays that used to air late night on TV. Since they were plays, there wasn't much music and everything had this strange otherworldly timing. Louis CK saw one and recognized there was something there. Most of all, the format allows you to express a range of emotion that's really hard to convey in other formats.

I should probably get this on DVD for later viewings. Not sure if you can buy it on DVD yet though. I think it was sold to Hulu, do those guys do DVD releases?
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
User avatar
Wafflewaffle
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:17 pm
Location: Carnaval land

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by Wafflewaffle »

Gilberreke wrote:Most of all, the format allows you to express a range of emotion that's really hard to convey in other formats
Cant agree with you more. The timing, facial expression and atmosfere could only be achieved in this format and frankly, only on this kind of distribution. Online, on demand "TV" has reinvigorated the medium.
Oh great, now nothing can stop the inbred train

Paradox Interactive:
CHOO CHOO!
User avatar
FlowerChild
Site Admin
Posts: 18753
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by FlowerChild »

What is this format thing that you guys are talking about? I recognize there's obviously something different here but I personally would have just put it off to good writing.

I hear you on there not really being any background music (although the bit with Simon & Garfunkel playing on the jukebox choked me up), but what else made this different?
User avatar
Gilberreke
Posts: 4486
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:12 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by Gilberreke »

First of all, the episodes are as long as they need to be, I think that's a big one. The episode lengths vary wildly. This means you would have a hard time airing it on TV (although Game of Thrones also does this to a lesser extent and gets away with it). Personally, I think this makes the episodes a lot better.

This leads into and enables the show's timing. There's a LOT of dead air in em. This is a big no-no for syndicated shows for a plethora of reasons. One big reason is that the viewer might switch channels during dead moments if they lose interest. The difference with on-demand is a difference between opt-in and opt-out. A viewer will usually stick with their choice. If that choice is presented as opt-in (you choose to watch), they'll keep watching. With broadcast TV, the choice is opt-out (do I choose to switch channels) and there's no incentive to stick, hence the compulsive "zapping" during dead air. The result is that broadcast TV shows tend to go for a very uniform pace (refer to Man on the Moon and the scene where Andy Kaufman gets a lot of pushback for wanting dead air in his special). This is not a bad thing, as generally, you want a uniform pace, with good cuts (this is why Horace and Pete feels very awkward at times).

The thing is though, Horace and Pete wants to be awkward, it wants to leverage dead air to create a very specific comedic and dramatic timing. The show very often has a character tell a joke, only to have a lingering shot that immediately kills the joke for story purposes.

The final part of the equation is what you already alluded to, the use (or lack) of music. This completely seals the package by making the dead air even more dead going straight up solemn at times. It makes the show connected to the dialogue. If the characters contemplate, the show contemplates. It also completely eschews laugh tracks for the same reason. You can't let a joke linger if there are people laughing.

One final aside is that the camera use is very unconventional. The theater dramas the show is based on have a restriction on where cameras can be and this is mimicked in the show, just as a preference. The big difference is that it requires longer cuts (I think the powerful third episode only has two cuts when Louis goes to the bathroom). On the technical side, the type of camera used is also a bit unconventional, to get a certain grain going that again harkens back to this format.


So yeah, I do think that the show has a very unconventional format and it all hinges on a stack of techniques that wouldn't be allowed for broadcast. Especially the dead air would be a major issue. As a world-class comedian, Louis' main weapon is timing. Timing is what he understands best, so making an entire show that revolves around weird timing is a marriage made in heaven.
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
User avatar
Gilberreke
Posts: 4486
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:12 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by Gilberreke »

Oh and for the people wondering, this is the specific drama the show was based on:



I've yet to watch it myself (I only skipped through a few scenes to try and understand the format better), so I can't comment on how it compares or how good it is.
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
User avatar
FlowerChild
Site Admin
Posts: 18753
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Horace and Pete

Post by FlowerChild »

Thanks for the explanation man! I'm not used to looking at TV shows in that manner, so I appreciate the insight.
Post Reply