BTW: The life of Minecraft.

[phamtrinli]

Like most people here, I played Minecraft extensively up to their so called "release." At one point I found that I had effectively done *everything* and was beginning to lose interest, (or at least search for additional content AKA Mods). I, also like everyone here, found Better Than Wolves. The things that this mod can do with the game are so impressive I lack proper words. The depth this mod adds is mind blowing.

While Flower was busy creating more BUILDING in this sandbox game, Mojang began attempting to create an RPG. This in and of itself was not necessarily bad, FC has added to/improved RPG elements and the RPG elements are what separates Minecraft from Buildcraft.

The problem is two fold:
1. Mojang is still treating the game as if it is in ALPHA testing. They are still coding their "Secret Friday Updates." The updates
are longer apart, but there is no plan. They release half thought ideas in order to release. There is no plan, no future expansion or
DLC.
2. They can't keep simple promises. The easiest example would be the MOD API that they continually push back with no explanation. Nor have
they refuted any statements made by the team, leaving Twitter and the like to be the "official" statements, (many of which are
contradictory). Leaving debate over what is and is not a "promised feature."

In short Mojang is still behaving like a bunch of kids in their garage. They can claim to be "indie" all they want, but they are in dire need of some kind of plan.

That a person is *required* to take over for a company, for free, is insulting. I do not agree with many things that FC has done. I have not argued the points here due to fundamental respect for a person "Fixing" a game for free. I may not agree with all the "fixes" but his end result is far superior to what is available.
**** **** ****
I am posting now because there is a continuing trend with this mod that I feel should be addressed.

BTW may have saved Minecraft from itself, yet increasingly FC is implementing features and making decisions for everyone. EG: Hardcore Modes that have no
toggle.

Now before everyone flames me into oblivion. I am not arguing with any one of these features they all work. I respect that FC has a vison, I merely hope it still has an easy, medium, and hard setting. For all I know it does, and he has made comments that imply he has no intent to "erase" normal mode. I have just lost confidence that future changes like "hardcore buckets" that fundamentally alter vanilla physics/game play will be optional.

I have played using hardcore buckets, it is a fun challenge and a good addition to the mod, yet if forced to be mandatory would remove the ability to build many things that I have always enjoyed creating in Vanilla. This is my fear.

I'll get out of you ear now and let you tear me to pieces.

[devak]

I understand your problems. However, HCB is something that will be toggleable because it breaks existing builds.

Flowerchild has always maintained the policy that stuff that breaks builds extremely will be optional. HCB feels super-weird in a world that previously wasn't HCB. However, in a new world it feels very natural.

[SterlingRed]

One thing to keep in mind is that fc creates the mod for his own enjoyment first and foremost. A lot of the design decisions in regards to what gets added and changed is driven from what fc personally enjoys and wants to play. Thus btw certainly does not cater to every play style out there, designing a game balanced for every mode is impossible for one, and often detrimental to the core design of the game.

That being said, I think btw can be played in many ways and will continue to have the ability to be played in normal or easy. Hardcore modes was a rapid rush of changes largely centered around fixing things Fc considered to be fundamentally flawed that he was previously hesitant to rip apart. It is in no way a change in the direction of the mod though.

One more point, I agree with you about your minecraft frustrations. Minecraft isn't really a game. Its a terrible game, but an excellent platform. I wish mojang would develop it as such.

[odranoel]

i hear you man, and as long as you make intelligent arguments here, you should be well received. when i first started playing with BTW i had similar dislikes and issues with what was other wise an amazing mod. however over time (i continued using BTW even due to the fact i was not happy with somethings, because it was still better then all the others i had tried) i started to noticed that all those little things i didnt like ( HC buckets, and more recently a few of the HC changes such as beds and grinding, or that somethings felt excessively expensive) were forcing me to dramatically alter my normal style of playing. but as a result i eventually found my self having more fun with the game then ever before.

many of the things i thought were for lack of better words, "bullshit" features, were actually making me build many things i wouldn't have even considered before hand. soon i found my frustration slowly turning into enjoyment. to be quite honest it was a very weird sensation. here all these things i had been cursing for days, were suddenly starting to feel "friendly" and seemed every time more natural and less intrusive.

thats when i realized just how damn good this mod is. the fact that something i seriously FUCKING HATED, like HC beds as an example, (AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! NO JOKE! this one brought be a lot of grief at first.) was now turning into something that not only was i enjoying, but seemed like "the way things should be". that was quite an incredible realization for me because that is an extremely difficult thing for a game/developer to do. to give you something you think (convinced) you aren't going to like, only to have you not only like it, but LOVE it! i was blown away.

there are many things mojand did not want to do because they caved in easily to the cry's of any random fan, or they may have seemed to hard or inconvenient to the average player. BTW takes that bold stance in saying,

BTW: "no! this is the way things should be!"
Fan: "but mr FC, these things will be no fun to play in my world. and i wanna use all the cool toys you added :(
BTW: "to bad! find another mod."
Fan: ".... D: but mr FC plz! some of the stuff is so cool, cant we at least get optional HC beds *tear*"
BTW: *tentacle slap*
Fan:

Spoiler

Show

----- a few days later -----

Fan: OMG I LOVE YOU! BTW! <3
BTW: <3



so just give those features you don't like a try, you might be very surprised at how much fun they can be :) i know i was. and i was pretty damn sure i wasn't going to like those features no matter how much i thought about it. its not until i finally caved in and played with them that i enjoyed and truly understood them.

Edit to add: oh and i forgot, in reference to me saying somethings felt a bit expensive. that forced me to build a lot of automated structures that i otherwise wouldn't have. and just further went to increase my enjoyment of the mod and my ever growing world.

[FlowerChild]

I think one of the problems we're running into right now is that I'm laying down a lot of groundwork with these HC changes, and the end result I'm shooting for is not yet in the mod, so people don't immediately see the reasoning behind some of them.

Yes, they all improve the game as it stands, but if you try to argue that with people when they're upset over losing convenience, it just doesn't go anywhere. Hence why my arguments often boil down to "don't like it...don't play it" ;)

In a little while though, I think it will be much more obvious. Like when I get back to revamping mob behavior, I think it will start to become clear to people while beds are no longer around, as having them would nullify a lot of that ("don't want to deal with mobs? Just skip the night!" ). Yes, there are definitely reasons behind removing them in isolation, but the reasoning behind those is on a much more abstract game-design level that I don't think most people really consider, so it just feels like they're being "punished" for no reason.

Anyways, it's a transition period for the mod to be sure. I think the perception of a lot of people of BTW was "a mod that adds blocks and items", when to my mind it was always "a mod that improves Minecraft". Whenever I've branched into new territory, inevitably a stink gets raised because I'm messing with people's perceptions of the mod and what it's supposed to do in their minds.

With time though, that ultimately dies down as people get used to the "new" BTW, in whatever form it may take. For the time being though, I'm largely ignoring it or at the very least taking it with a grain of salt, because I am well aware this is a temporary situation, and it becomes way too depressing otherwise.

[finite8]

My original decision to use this mod was originally "Oh my gawd, look at all the awesome stuff it adds". The bigger question for me lately has been "Why should i stay with BTW?".

Only recently with the complete removal of the Anvil features have i finally encountered a Hardcore change that i didn't agree with and i have had to decide "What is more important? My desire for that feature i was looking forward to or everything else BTW has?", And i really understand why people get so narky; I am locked into BTW. Everything that i expect from Minecraft is actually BTW and when BTW makes a change that i don't like, i feel the "Don't like it? Piss off then" thing hard to swallow. For me, BTW is the game i play, not Minecraft and it isn't possible for me to not use it anymore.

So i think everyone reacts to changes in BTW in exactly the same way as people react to changes in any other game. People get narky when nerfing occurs in WoW because they have put so much time and emotion into it. BTW is the same.

Not that I'm saying you should change anything though. I accept that you have a vision for BTW and just like Alpha Minecraft, it isn't there yet. I think it is only fair to wait and see how it is all going to fit together before any real kind of judgement can be made on whether the decisions made were right or not.

[FlowerChild]

Only recently with the complete removal of the Anvil features have i finally encountered a Hardcore change that i didn't agree with and i have had to decide "What is more important? My desire for that feature i was looking forward to or everything else BTW has?", And i really understand why people get so narky; I am locked into BTW. Everything that i expect from Minecraft is actually BTW and when BTW makes a change that i don't like, i feel the "Don't like it? Piss off then" thing hard to swallow. For me, BTW is the game i play, not Minecraft and it isn't possible for me to not use it anymore.

What exactly is it about the anvil changes that bother you? BTW already has a means of combining enchants through the infernal enchanter. It also has a means of "repairing" tools and armor through material recycling.

I'm not about to throw all the work and balance that went into those aspects just because Mojang decided to throw in a poorly thought out block that does similar things but in a far more overpowered way. Not only would we effectively lose those features in BTW, but I'd likely be thrown back into trying to rebalance the vanilla version to get it into a form I am comfortable with.

As far as I can tell, the only thing "lost" was item renaming, and that's largely an extraneous feature, and of the kind you use once, then forget about entirely because it really amounts to nothing at all. I haven't ruled out the possibility of building that into the mod elsewhere, but given the disastrous effect the rest of the anvil functionality would have on the balance of the mod, and given that it would be a *lot* more work to retain that single (again extraneous) feature while eliminating the rest, AND given that I'm still trying to adapt to all the other changes in 1.4 weeks later, I opted for the quick fix of disabling the GUI entirely.

I'd honestly like to know why people consider that anvil change such a big deal given all of the above.

[finite8]

What exactly is it about the anvil changes that bother you? BTW already has a means of combining enchants through the infernal enchanter. It also has a means of "repairing" tools and armor through material recycling.

I'm not about to throw all the work and balance that went into those aspects just because Mojang decided to throw in a poorly thought out block that does similar things but in a far more overpowered way.

As far as I can tell, the only thing "lost" was item renaming, and that's largely an extraneous feature, and of the kind you use once, then forget about entirely because it really amounts to nothing at all. I haven't ruled out the possibility of building that into the mod elsewhere, but given the disastrous effect the rest of the anvil functionality would have on the balance of the mod, and given that it would be a *lot* more work to retain that single (again extraneous) feature while eliminating the rest, I opted for the quick fix of disabling the GUI entirely.

I'd honestly like to know why people consider that anvil change such a big deal given all of the above.

I have been writing and deleting this so many times as i have never been able to put it into words that doesn't make it sound like I'm being overly critical, but i hope you know me well enough now that i don't mean any offence and since you asked...

The Item naming was a cool feature, but not the selling point. The main thing is actually "Enchantment Preservation". I can live without the Enchantment combining, but what i don't like is putting hours of play and XP into a weapon, only to never use it. I woudl always be too worried to use it because once it wears out, that's it. "I'm only killing Zombies, i don't need a kick arse weapon for that". In the past, i have used "Superior Enchantment Mod" that did exactly this and i absolutely loved it. It added a great feature to Minecraft and i only wished that it worked with SFS gear. Once i heard of the Anvil coming, i thought "Yay! I can get Superior Enchantment Mod in Vanilla" but then looking at the implementation i thought "Crap. FC's gonna hate this". Now that this is a vanilla thing, the mod author for the Superior Enchantment mod will probably rely on the Anvil features that have now been removed, so i have lost this feature entirely.

So that's my only gripe with the removal of the anvil. My scenario is rather unique, but i was looking forward to seeing Preserving enchantment in Vanilla and now that i can't have it at all, it has made me a bit of a sad panda.

[DaveYanakov]

When it comes down to leaving in the dead weight's GUI and all that it entails or nuking it an losing the item renaming, stripping it out was the right way to go. Where I do disagree is your assessment that item renaming is a use once gimmick. It's one of those things where certainly some people would say "oh cool" and the completely forget it do to the very imbalanced cost. Others of us would have used it extensively as an alternative to using books to write everything down or to leave clues to remind ourselves where our various caches were hidden. It wasn't the named weapon thing so much that I was interested in, it was that it allowed for things like naming potatoes.

[FlowerChild]

So that's my only gripe with the removal of the anvil. My scenario is rather unique, but i was looking forward to seeing Preserving enchantment in Vanilla and now that i can't have it at all, it has made me a bit of a sad panda.

Well, I am sorry to hear that man, but the loss of enchantments with time (or to put another way: the fact that enchanted weapons are of finite lifetime) has become a major issue of balance within the mod, especially given that renewing them is tied directly into mob-traps, which I have been spending a major amount of time making a properly integrated part of MC.

From my standpoint, it's really just not reasonable for me to be undertaking that level of redesign with the mod every time Mojang randomly decides to throw in a new block. Keep in mind too, that I'm still developing the Infernal Enchanter and all the Arcane Scrolls that go into it. There's a hell of a lot of design work backing that one up that I've planned to make part of the mod's development for months to come.

All that was thrown out the window with the announcement of the vanilla anvil, and as I said awhile ago, I've basically decided to branch the design of BTW from vanilla. I have strong design goals for the mod and I can't just keep entirely reworking them with each release of vanilla. The amount of work that would require from me would be extreme, and all for a result I'd never be fully happy with anyways. I do not think it is right for anyone to expect that of me, hence my "take it or leave it" attitude.

So I guess the real question you need to ask yourself is whether you want Jeb/Dinnerbone to be designing your version of MC for you, or you want me to be doing it. Given the way the vanilla design has been going, I'm just not willing to automatically accept every new feature they design into the game anymore, and I've decided to go my own way with it. When Notch was running things, I was in sync enough with his design vision to accept everything he threw at me. However, those days are over, and I am no longer willing to be spending my time scrambling to try and accommodate the random ideas that millions of MC fans throw at Mojang in one of the worst examples of "design by committee" I've ever witnessed.

So sorry man, you've been a constructive member of this community for a very long time now, but from a personal standpoint "take it or leave it" is the only option I can reasonably present to the community while still continuing to develop this mod.

[FlowerChild]

When it comes down to leaving in the dead weight's GUI and all that it entails or nuking it an losing the item renaming, stripping it out was the right way to go. Where I do disagree is your assessment that item renaming is a use once gimmick. It's one of those things where certainly some people would say "oh cool" and the completely forget it do to the very imbalanced cost. Others of us would have used it extensively as an alternative to using books to write everything down or to leave clues to remind ourselves where our various caches were hidden. It wasn't the named weapon thing so much that I was interested in, it was that it allowed for things like naming potatoes.

Look, it may even be useful in certain circumstances, but my main point is that it is in no way necessary and can definitely wait to a later date for me to take care of.

It's pretty depressing when I'm constantly churning out new content and item renaming seems to take a higher priority for people. Let's say it would take me a couple of man days (16 hours) to implement it within the mod and resolve any issues that arose as a result (and I'm willing to gamble there would indeed be resulting issues).

Have I released anything over the past few weeks since 1.4 came out that you feel is of sufficiently low quality that you would prefer I had spent the time I invested in it on item renaming instead? Is it really that important?

[finite8]

... it was that it allowed for things like naming potatoes.

Yeah, being able to rename Nitrate to "Creeper Spooj" was a concern.

Well, I am sorry to hear that man, but the loss of enchantments with time has become a major issue of balance within the mod, especially given that renewing them is tied directly into mob-traps, which I have been spending a major amount of time making a properly integrated part of MC.

From my standpoint, it's really just not reasonable for me to be undertaking that level of redesign with the mod every time Mojang randomly decides to throw in a new block. Keep in mind too, that I'm still developing the Infernal Enchanter and all the Arcane Scrolls that go into it. There's a hell of a lot of design work backing that one up that I've planned to make part of the mod's development for months to come.

All that was thrown out the window with the announcement of the vanilla anvil, and as I said awhile ago, I've basically decided to branch the design of BTW from vanilla. I have strong design goals for the mod and I can't just keep entirely reworking them with each release of vanilla. The amount of work that would require from me would be extreme, and all for a result I'd never be fully happy with anyways. I do not think it is right for anyone to expect that of me, hence my "take it or leave it" attitude.

So I guess the real question you need to ask yourself is whether you want Jeb/Dinnerbone to be designing your version of MC for you, or you want me to be doing it. Given the way the vanilla design has been going, I'm just not willing to automatically accept every new feature they design into the game anymore, and I've decided to go my own way with it. When Notch was running things, I was in sync enough with his design vision to accept everything he threw at me. However, those days are over, and I am no longer willing to be spending my time scrambling to try and accommodate the random ideas that millions of MC fans throw at Mojang in one of the worst examples of "design by committee" I've ever witnessed.

So sorry man, you've been a constructive member of this community for a very long time now, but from a personal standpoint "take it or leave it" is the only option I can reasonably present to the community while still continuing to develop this mod.

Oh god FC. I never expected you to make it the way i like it. This is why i never posted it because of that reaction. I know it is a "Take it or leave it" scenario and it makes me sad the number of times you have had to rework a mojang "Feature" and as such would never expect you to do one for my own personal benefit. I totally understand that you had to nuke the anvil, i just have that childish "I don't get to have any more ice cream" feeling; i know it is for the best, but it still sucks not having it.

I'm not saying that the "Take it or leave it" thing is unfair. It is what has to be done. I said it was "Hard to Swallow", not that i wouldn't swallow.

Hmm... i hope that last part isn't taken out of context...

[DaveYanakov]

I did not mean to imply that I thought it was a higher priority that the content you have been providing. As I said, stripping the GUI out entirely was the better option. I was attempting to answer your question on why people might care about the feature at all rather than disagree with your priorities.

[FlowerChild]

Hmm... i hope that last part isn't taken out of context...

Nah man, you provided plenty of context with the "creeper spooj" intro to your post :)

Don't get me wrong man, I'm not taking any offense at any of this, but I do want to be clear on where I stand right now and why going this way is a necessity in terms of preserving my own sanity and continuing to be productive with the mod. I just couldn't keep going with things the way they were, and I was bound to break eventually, say "fuck this" in reaction to all the poor design decisions coming out of Mojang the past few months, and go my own way.

Look, again, nothing against Jeb and Dinnerbone, but "THEY ARE NOT DESIGNERS". That is not an insult against them, that is a statement of plainly obvious fact.

They have no professional qualifications as game designers. They have very little or no experience working in that role. They have exhibited no particular understanding of what it entails, or a capacity for making the tough or unpopular decisions such a position often requires. If I were interviewing them for a design position, which is something I have done many times in the past, they just wouldn't get the job. Heck, they probably wouldn't have even gotten the interview, as they just have no credentials to warrant applying for such a position.

Consider for a moment how frustrating that is for me. I've invested literally thousands of hours into this mod, basically working under Notch, whom I respected as a designer.

Now, here I am a year and a half later, I'm a professional designer, and effectively what has happened is that two completely amateur designers have been "promoted" to a position above me where I have no choice but to adapt everything I do to their decisions.

That just can't work man. If this were a job, I likely would have quit within a couple of weeks of it happening. It's a totally untenable position for me to be in given my experience and obvious love for this mod.

So yeah man, I just can't, and won't, take that anymore. Jeb & co. are of course free to design MC as they see fit. I can't do anything about that. However, I also can not maintain my interest in developing BTW under these circumstances unless I go my own way

[FlowerChild]

I did not mean to imply that I thought it was a higher priority that the content you have been providing. As I said, stripping the GUI out entirely was the better option. I was attempting to answer your question on why people might care about the feature at all rather than disagree with your priorities.

Yeah, I hear you man, but as with anything, priorities are the only thing I can evaluate this stuff on.

For the record: yes, item renaming is a nice little feature (little being the operative word). However, I can not reasonably give it priority over my other tasks at present given the work that would be involved in incorporating it into the mod.

And like I said to finite above, don't sweat anything I'm saying in this thread. There's no hostility here, just a genuine attempt on my part to clearly explain where I'm coming from with all this stuff.

[muggsbud]

maybe I'm reading too deep into this, or i missed something entirely; but from my perspective it seems that the root problem actually stemmed from the VMC enchanting process being poorly implemented.

Finite8's problem looks to me like the enchants are too costly to be used even in an entirely appropriate situation (the actual cost might be just about right, but the perceived cost is greater, possibly b/c of the randomness).

the whole 'renaming items' problem actually seems like an intuitive part of a game about making things, you should be able to name your own greatest achievement shouldn't you? -feels like it should have been there since the beginning. Not saying its particularly important or even worth the time.

personally i don't use enchanting (or potions) on single player, they don't feel very 'minecraft-y' and i don't even like them being there. they feel like A) a cheap solution to a problem that may not have existed. B) poorly even if extensively implemented C) out of theme. :/

like i said, maybe I'm missing something, or maybe i went down the wrong train of thought; But this is my take on the situation.

[FlowerChild]

I just wanted to make one more point on this that puts it in a slightly more positive light:

I know that with a lot of the features getting removed, the immediate reaction is to focus on the things being lost. I'd like to take a moment to talk about the things that are gained through doing it.

Selectively eliminating vanilla features as they come out instead of scrambling to rebalance the mod to accommodate them saves me time. I think that doesn't really need any further explanation to demonstrate the truth behind it.

And that's largely where the gain comes in. Any time I save is ultimately more time to devote to other features for the mod. Now, there's never going to be a label on a specific feature saying "This Saw was brought to you by the elimination of the vanilla anvil", but there may as well be. As is a common theme in many of the statements I make about the mod's development: my time is a finite resource, and it's a resource that fans of the mod are currently benefiting from. In fact, the better I prioritize and manage my own time, the more you guys benefit from it.

The same thing can be said about the effective elimination of secondary modes of play or what have you. Ultimately, the more time I spend on those, the less time I have to invest in what I consider to be the primary mode of play for BTW. The more I have to take into account those secondary modes, the more watered down my design decisions for the primary have to become. It's just the nature of the beast, and one of the reasons I so adamantly reject any suggestions related to the inclusion or support of optional modes in the mod.

This argument can even be made about mod compatibility. Say for example if I were to adopt the Forge and suddenly BTW became compatible with almost every other mod out there. How long do you guys think it would be before people started asking (and quite reasonably) for BTW to start recognizing and reacting to blocks from other mods? How much time do you see other mod authors using the Forge devoting specifically to those kind of inter-mod interactions? How many design decisions would I have to adjust to accommodate those other mods? I went through exactly that when I was previously part of the Forge, and it really was no fun at all to try to take into account a random assortment of other mods while working on my own.

So again, back to the point of what you guys get out of these controversial decisions of mine: you get a mod/game with a far more cohesive design vision, and thus individual parts and features that work reliably with each other and make sense within the overall context that has been created. That's fairly abstract, but it's most definitely there. On a much more immediate level that you can hopefully relate to though, you get more features out of the deal due to the time savings. This is also amplified by the fact that you get a happier, and thus more productive, FlowerChild.

I'm really not doing any of this to be a prick or piss people off. Quite the contrary, I'm doing it because I believe it is right and that it will result in a better play experience, and thus more fun (both for myself and other like minded individuals), in the long run.

[FlowerChild]

personally i don't use enchanting (or potions) on single player, they don't feel very 'minecraft-y' and i don't even like them being there. they feel like A) a cheap solution to a problem that may not have existed. B) poorly even if extensively implemented C) out of theme. :/

I don't use them extensively either, and hardly ever used them before the Infernal Enchanter because of the above reasons.

For me, the Infernal Enchanter changed my in-game perception of them and that's the only way I enchant my stuff now, only doing so sparingly here and there. With it, I feel like I've put an appropriate amount of "work" into acquiring each individual enchantment to justify its power. Much like my feelings on SFS armor and equipment, I also do not believe people should be running around in fully enchanted stuff at all times, but rather that it should be something special that requires a great deal of effort.

Honestly, there may come a time when I rip vanilla enchanting out entirely, and it will all become infernal. I've even been toying with an idea lately for turning the vanilla enchanting table into some kind of "scribe's workbench" for the naming of items.

[finite8]

Finite8's problem looks to me like the enchants are too costly to be used even in an entirely appropriate situation (the actual cost might be just about right, but the perceived cost is greater, possibly b/c of the randomness).

Very close. The randomness is painful, but the infernal enchanter resolves this problem by saying "So, you want control over the enchantments? Well that is something that is very difficult to do and you are going to need the right scroll to channel it and ton of magical energy to transfer it".

I guess it is the "building" logic that i am hung up on. A factory i build doesn't deteriorate because it has been used a lot. I can always add to it and improve it by spending "time" on it. The same doesn't apply to what you wear and equip that you ahve spent "time" enchanting and improving. The more you use it, the quicker it wears out; more so if you use Iron. The only problem is that equipment is something that is much closer to you. You may build lots of buildings, but that sword of monsterly squishiness is always sitting there in the #1 slot ready to squelchify any squishable enemies. You get proud of that great tool that you have swung and carried with you, glittering attractively in your vision as you sprint across fields or smash through caves. To have something you've grown attached to suddenly go "pling" and shatter kind of takes you adoration with it and you are left feeling empty, sad and remorseful.

I guess when i've been playing with the "Superior Enchantment Mod" i always imagine Steve as an old king standing on a hill with his son and saying "Son. It is time for you to rule over these lands. My time here is over. I give you my blade of Monsterly Squishiness. May you keep it close for it will always protect you". I mean, how would the Lord of the Rings fared if half way through, he swung that blue orc blade only to have it shatter? And yes, the kings blade shattered too... but it got repaired in the end and retained its magical goodliness.

I'm really not doing any of this to be a prick or piss people off. Quite the contrary, I'm doing it because I believe it is right and that it will result in a better play experience, and thus more fun (both for myself and other like minded individuals), in the long run.

I really wish i could say "Don't be stupid FC, no-one thinks that" but from what i've been seeing from the modding community that's not the case. I have seen your ability to make excellent design decisions and i totally understand that be removing certain features, you are encouraging the use and ingenuity in others which i feel is the biggest part of the Mod at the moment and was one of the most attractive parts of vMC originally. I was going to write a praise thread about Hardcore Buckets, but then i remembered that has been done to death.

[FlowerChild]

I really wish i could say "Don't be stupid FC, no-one thinks that" but from what i've been seeing from the modding community that's not the case.

Yeah, I get it from all ends man, so often times my statements go way beyond what is happening immediately on these forums. I basically can't interact with other modders, or the MC community at large these days without getting some form of lecture on the "right" way to do things in terms of compatibility or some statement about how I am a nazi prick limiting player freedom or what have you, that ultimately just ends in me either thinking or bluntly saying "go fuck yourself".

This cultish "you must make your mod our way!" mentality drives me frigging crazy, as it basically boils down to "you must spend your time as we see fit!". I even had one prominent modder tell me a couple of weeks ago that I shouldn't even be making BTW due to my refusal to conform to his particular vision of how it should be done. I obviously have my own way of doing things, and those methods are based on very sound reasons that may differ from many others, but which are no less correct because of it.

Anyways, just to say if I seem to have a very short fuse on certain topics, it's likely because I'm getting an earful about it in other places you guys probably aren't aware of.

[haphazardnuke]

blade of Monsterly Squishiness story

Well, we can hang items on our walls now. Why not do that when it gets near breaking, and write a book (in-game of course) about your adventures with it? Then you can reminisce next to your hibachi fireplace while the rain falls softly outside.

As for BTW vs Vanilla features, I'm a staunch convert. I'm barely enduring how boring the vanilla server I play on is, but at least they haven't gone Forge. Keep on doing your thing, FC. If there is one thing I know for certain about the Internet, it is that the negative opinions are unfortunately always louder. That doesn't mean a lot of goodwill isn't out there; we just don't speak up as much because we're too busy using the mod :)

[FlowerChild]

As for BTW vs Vanilla features, I'm a staunch convert. I'm barely enduring how boring the vanilla server I play on is, but at least they haven't gone Forge. Keep on doing your thing, FC. If there is one thing I know for certain about the Internet, it is that the negative opinions are unfortunately always louder. That doesn't mean a lot of goodwill isn't out there; we just don't speak up as much because we're too busy using the mod :)

Well, there's one area which doesn't seem to lie: the donations.

I mentioned this on IRC the other night, but the sensation I'm getting is that the donations I receive have been steadily increasing as I implement more "hardcore" changes. So yes, the people complaining are definitely more vocal on the forums, but there's also obviously people out there that are *very* grateful for what I'm doing with the mod.

Now, I've said this before, and I'll repeat it now that I refuse to let donations affect the design direction of the mod. My integrity in that regard is far too important to me to let money influence it. However, in terms of it letting me know that people appreciate what I am doing, it provides me with a source of feedback that the general public isn't privy to.

[johnt]

I really feel like making the hardcore changes optional is more of a feasible design decision now that the multiplayer server is out, since the game is increasingly being balanced for multiplayer, and server admins can enforce them for players who might ordinarily be loathe to try them out. Making it optional would leave an easy mode option for the 'just for fun' players.

Though now that I've typed out, they already have creative mode, so I guess it isn't needed.

[dawnraider]

I must say, I hated the hardcore changes to begin with. Then, after playing with them in a new world, I have found that I am having much more fun as a result. So I must say thank you for pushing through the mass of trolls and following your own vision. This also brings to mind the saying: Why do people who know the least, know it the loudest?

Also, in response to the above, it makes it much harder from a design standpoint, as you have to do much more testing for each mode of play, since you don't know how people will be playing the game, and also it makes features much harder to balance due to that.

[muggsbud]

I really feel like making the hardcore changes optional is more of a feasible design decision now that the multiplayer server is out, since the game is increasingly being balanced for multiplayer, and server admins can enforce them for players who might ordinarily be loathe to try them out. Making it optional would leave an easy mode option for the 'just for fun' players.

Though now that I've typed out, they already have creative mode, so I guess it isn't needed.

though maintaining mod behavior for both options throughout updates is a huge time sink.

@finite8: maybe factories should wear down. mojang just added functionality for blocks to have use durability.

though while i mentioned enchantments as poorly designed i think wear and tear on tools could use some love too. for instance it /feels/ like sheers and hoes have much less durability than their equivalent axe and pick. I also think balancing tools shouldn't come down to just durability, but other factors too. eg.wood tools can mine iron. I sometimes think this *could* be retroactive in the way that gold enchants easier or diamond would just turn coal into carbon powder. Now that was a bad example, bu you see my point that there are other ways to balance things than making them more costly or weaker. I feel that enchants and tools could benefit from something similar.

the more i think about it the more i question the base elements of MC as game design decisions. This in turn increases my respect and support for FC, he has shown the ability to pick these out and come up with teaks that i never would have thought of.