Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

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FlowerChild
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Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by FlowerChild »

So, I've begun to have my doubts about hardcore sinkholes, and was wondering what other people's impressions are.

Love the concept, but in practice I've found land to give way in very odd places, like on beaches or what have you where you'd expect the water pressure to have previously collapsed the space in question, or in the middle of desert villages where you'd expect the villager traffic to have already done so.

Thoughts? Do you feel it improves the overall experience or detracts from it?
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by johnt »

It would be nice if there were some hint about them, but I think we have to be well past the point of expecting realistic physics in minecraft, and you'd still have the problem of updates triggering falls.
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FlowerChild
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by FlowerChild »

There is a warning: it's sand and gravel blocks :)
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by RalphKastro »

I usually do a lot of walking near beaches, and until now I haven't found a single sinkhole except for some rare cases where ravines cut right through the sandstone.
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Marasambala
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by Marasambala »

I like the idea with the gravel in the nether. However, I have rage quit many times when it has happened the desert. It's one of those things that I don't feel I have any real control over short of digging every block in front of me or building a path for a one time trip to the desert temple containing that enchantment table. It was enough frustration finding the thing in the first place.

Edit: for me it feels about the same as the former insult of the suicide creeper dive. Once it starts there is nothing I can do to stop it.
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Gunnerman21
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by Gunnerman21 »

I purposefully walk on sand and gravel to make it fall, even if it's only a couple blocks off the ground. I did fall into a spider dungeon once in the desert, but it was daytime so HCSH actually helped me then :)
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Equitis1024
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by Equitis1024 »

I recently did a fairly large building project in a desert, and I quite liked having Hardcore Sinkholes. It made the process actually feel a little different from the norm. I would be sad to see it go.

I guess I did have a "hmm..." reaction the first time it happened on a riverbank, but the sense of oddness dissipated quickly. I think the benefits far outweigh the downside of a little 'unrealistic' behavior.
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hawk
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by hawk »

I think the gameplay positives of Hardcore Sinkholes heavily outweigh what I feel are pretty minor negatives. If there were a way to disable it in populated villages I'd be all for it but not at the expense of loosing the feature in its entirety. It's completely changed the way I view the desert and makes me ask the question "Is it worth it?" when traveling. I think that's a good thing.
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Rawny
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by Rawny »

I used to be nonchalant about deserts, almost even finding them "safer" havens. Now I'm scared to shit of them. I like that. It's not the same "scared" as jungles, it's more of a peaceful, quiet fear of the unknown. I know you hate random inevitable deaths (as mentioned dive bomb creepers) and so do I. For one, falling sand is plausible, I don't get a helpless "BULLSHIT!" When it happens and hurts. Second it's avoidable. Not just by being ultra careful, taking it really slow but in later gameplay and tech tree it's circumventable. At "low level" the deserts are a fearful no go for me. At a higher level where food is plentiful, maybe with some automated animal farms (which can easily be done at first saw level), they become an exploration option to me. "But why Rawny?" Because I'm far enough in the tech tree to not worry about burning food "uselessly".
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while running and jumping I have been able to run/jump over sand, triggering the falling sand blocks yet keep going, only finding the newly formed holes behind me once I'm stopped and turning around to look. Maybe I like it because of the nostalgia I get as it reminds me of "tremors", "QUICK! Run to the next hard surface!
So it's a fear that I like, a risk to not be taken lightly, but your odds of survival grow with your tech tree. IMO. Sounds good to me.

To be my own devil's advocate, if you don't know about the falling sand, then the first time is a piss off but then that can be said about everything in MC even the basics. "Oooo what's that green penis with little feet? It's cute." BOOM! *but I didn't know, lesson learned, alter behavior*

Sometimes they can be in strange locations but Minecraft is a strange location generator. I think sand near water that isn't a desert is in the "river" biome. I occasionally find "walls" of unflowing water so the rare strange occurrences don't bother me much.

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Gears
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by Gears »

While I think it's a cool feature in theory, for me the novelty wore off after a while, and it felt like it was just there for the sake of being there. It's interesting, but I can't tell what it really does for the game.
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ion
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by ion »

like them as they are now. many deaths in the dessert for me, so it's fun.
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by dawnraider »

Honestly, I'm with Gears on this one. I think it was a cool feature originally (and still is in the nether), but in the overworld I feel a bit cheated, as I couldn't have directly done something to prevent the death (apart from say, "Don't go in the desert"), but the "randomness" of HCSH makes me feel like I got cheated when I die to it.
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by hawk »

dawnraider wrote:... but in the overworld I feel a bit cheated, as I couldn't have directly done something to prevent the death (apart from say, "Don't go in the desert")...
If this were true I would agree as well but have you guys tried:
Rawny wrote:
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while running and jumping I have been able to run/jump over sand, triggering the falling sand blocks yet keep going, only finding the newly formed holes behind me once I'm stopped and turning around to look. Maybe I like it because of the nostalgia I get as it reminds me of "tremors", "QUICK! Run to the next hard surface!
It has worked well for me in the past. Maybe its my aggressive play style but I think adding another facet to the game where a blind rush works well makes it more fun. Also, an Iron shovel in your hot bar can give you a second chance if despite your best efforts you find yourself blind and suffocating.
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Ethinolicbob
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by Ethinolicbob »

I have been thinking hard about this one.
It makes you think twice about travelling on gravel in the nether and when travelling in a desert you quickly learn to have a spade in your hotbar.
The holes it generates on beaches, rivers and underwater are a little odd.
However the damage it causes is completely unpredictable.

While I have loved the oh shit moments where you have had to dig yourself out, the other moment where death is the only outcome can really pull you out of the game.
In one instance there was an area that had been travelled a lot (entrance through the walls of a desert village) and for some odd reason didn't collapse. So one day wandering through the entrance the sand gives way to a ravine. The fall didn't quite kill however, the cave spiders quickly did.

So mostly I am unsure about it. It has provided some great experiences, and some not so.
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by dawnraider »

hawk wrote:
dawnraider wrote:It has worked well for me in the past. Maybe its my aggressive play style but I think adding another facet to the game where a blind rush works well makes it more fun. Also, an Iron shovel in your hot bar can give you a second chance if despite your best efforts you find yourself blind and suffocating.
I definitely play aggressively (too much so, so many deaths...), but at least I can blame myself for those deaths.
Ethinolicbob wrote:However the damage it causes is completely unpredictable.
This is exactly what I mean. The death isn't directly connected to your actions, it is almost hit or miss whether or not you survive, similar to the creeper dive bombs the FC removed a while ago.
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dawnraider
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by dawnraider »

hawk wrote:It has worked well for me in the past. Maybe its my aggressive play style but I think adding another facet to the game where a blind rush works well makes it more fun. Also, an Iron shovel in your hot bar can give you a second chance if despite your best efforts you find yourself blind and suffocating.
I definitely play aggressively (too much so, so many deaths...), but at least I can blame myself for those deaths.
Ethinolicbob wrote:However the damage it causes is completely unpredictable.
This is exactly what I mean. The death isn't directly connected to your actions, it is almost hit or miss whether or not you survive, similar to the creeper dive bombs the FC removed a while ago.

EDITS: Stupid quotes

EDIT again...: and I still derped, and double posted...
Last edited by dawnraider on Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by jakerman999 »

I don't think I've ever found it out of place on gravel blocks.

As far as sand goes, I've only ever seen it on beaches, never in deserts.
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by Gilberreke »

I personally love it, both for sand and gravel
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by Ambrason »

I have no problems with this feature. I already avoid traveling through deserts to begin with because of how slow sand is, and if I really need to travel through one I can just place torches to both check for the holes and to mark out a safe path back.
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by emptychild »

I am ok with them in the nether but not a huge fan of them in the desert. The reason for this is that even though BTW is much more brutal than vMC once you get the hang of it you only ever die if you do something you shouldn't. I feel that the effort required to mitigate the danger of falling into a ravine or some other type of death is excessive. If there was no HC spawn it would be yeah whatever, not a huge deal. But given that having the audacity to cross the desert can cost you so many hours of work is frustrating. Especially since items are incredibly difficult to recover from a ravine death situation. So even if I do all the HC spawn stuff and get home it is still a huge task to go to where I died and pick up my stuff. So while there is occasionally some neat gameplay with it I find the penalty to be overkill for the infraction when it results in death. At least in the overworld.
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Jesar
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by Jesar »

Honestly, I don't think hardcore sinkholes went far enough. I always walked forward and never looked back, and never actually fell down a sinkhole once. The sand in the desert would just fall behind me. And also, who is dumb enough to walk on gravel in the nether anyway? :P
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DaveYanakov
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by DaveYanakov »

It's a bit late but my gameplay style adapted pretty easily to sinkholes. I simply streamline my equipment when I need to build a road across a desert and go slower, building caches and small shelters along the way so I never need to carry more than a couple stone tools and a stack of paving materials. Yes there is the occasional death along the way but knowing that there is danger adds gameplay value for me
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FlowerChild
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by FlowerChild »

Not too late at all Dave as this is something I'm still actively pondering :)
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Yhetti
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by Yhetti »

I guess I don't have enough bad experiences with them. I think it's a good feature. I don't avoid desserts because of them, I just am extra careful. The worst that happened was I landed next to a creeper, and my friend fell a short ways down a ravine and I had to rescue him. Maybe I just haven't had bad things happen to me enough though.
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MaxAstro
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Re: Hardcore Sinkholes: looking for feedback

Post by MaxAstro »

I'll put a vote in favor of sinkholes - they make unexplored deserts a lot more interesting instead of safe zones.

They have also led to me carrying around easily broken blocks for the sole purpose of "testing" the ground by placing blocks, which is fun.
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